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Is this natural?

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2007-August-20, 09:41

Scoring: IMP


RHO opens 1♣ and you overcall 1♦. LHO then bids 1♥ which partner Doubles.

Is 2♣ by you now natural in this auction? What would 2♥ show then?
Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-August-20, 11:02

This is an issue for agreement.
I normally play 2♣ as natural here and 2♥ as showing strenght.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-20, 11:39

I think 2C should be natural but I haven't discussed this. Will do so now.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-August-20, 14:15

I play 2♣ natural but I wouldn't bid it.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-August-20, 14:18

jdonn, on Aug 20 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

I play 2♣ natural but I wouldn't bid it.

agreed

Useful default rule: if a bid can logically be natural, it is natural unless specifically agreed otherwise. Clearly, this 2♣ could logically be natural.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#6 User is offline   BebopKid 

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Posted 2007-August-21, 10:27

Here is what I got from one of our local experts as to what this double should mean

Quote

This is a Rosenkranz double.  Doubles of a forcing overcall (as in this case…the heart bid is forcing) show a raise in partner’s suit that includes an ace, king or queen of that suit.  If the responder to the opener gives a negative double, then a redouble is also Rosenkranz.

In either case if opener passes the double, you rebid your suit.

♦♦♦♦♦♦

BebopKid (Bryan Lee Williams)

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#7 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-August-21, 11:00

Isn't snap-dragon double more common than Rosenkranz double?
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#8 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-August-21, 12:15

Snapdragon is a lot more common that Rosencranz, but Rosencranz is still used by many.

Assuming this is Snapdragon, I'd take a 2♣ call as forcing and a max overcall. Why do I have a need to introduce a 3rd possible strain, especially after the opponents have bid the suit naturally?

If you think 2♥ replaces the 2♣ as the cue bid, I buy that argument. Only after discussion however.
"Phil" on BBO
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-August-22, 05:43

Tend to agree with Phil. I can see a case for playing 2♣ as natural but if p's snapdragon double is wide-ranging, it's nice to have a positive bid that does not bypass 2♦.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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