[Winstonm]

From CNN:

Quote

Americans may need passports to board domestic flights or to picnic in a national park next year if they live in one of the states defying the federal Real ID Act.

The act, signed in 2005 as part of an emergency military spending and tsunami relief bill, aims to weave driver's licenses and state ID cards into a sort of national identification system by May 2008. The law sets baseline criteria for how driver's licenses will be issued and what information they must contain.

The Department of Homeland Security insists Real ID is an essential weapon in the war on terror, but privacy and civil liberties watchdogs are calling the initiative an overly intrusive measure that smacks of Big Brother.

What say ye? Big brother or necessary big bother?

[ArcLight]

So you need a "Federal" drivers license instead of a state drivers license?
I don't see the big deal in that?

I think there is a lot of fraud and fake IDs used for illegal purposes.
I think tightening up IDs is ok.


Now if the government kept a record of where we all went, and could stop us randomly and ask for IDs (and travel papers) I would NOT like that.

[pbleighton]

Quote

Now if the government kept a record of where we all went, and could stop us randomly and ask for IDs (and travel papers) I would NOT like that.

Just wait.

The objection is not to the ID per se, but to the slippery slope.

Peter

[mike777]

I may be the only poster here who heard those famous words:

"Papers"

Midnight train to east berlin....decades ago....

needless to say my date was not amused...rats!

[helene_t]

I don't have an issue with Big Brother. BB knowing who I am and where I'm going reduces the chance that I'll be accused for a crime that I didn't commit, or that someone else can sign contracts and spend money in my name.

Linking this to the "war on terror" is as silly as, well, the war on terror. But a trustworthy identificantion system can serve other purposes.

Of course if you live in a country where power abuse by the governement is a major problem, things are different.

[Winstonm]

Another in a long line of "Who's the boss?" questions over state rights versus federal power.

One thing left out is cost - it would seem that by imposing federal mandate the states are forced to absorb the cost of complying, which would be a hidden tax to pay for the federal mandate.

[Quantumcat]

This sort of thing is the first step towards people disappearing ...

I heard that here in Australia soon there could be passed a bill which would allow the police to capture and hold people for questioning with no charge for up to 21 days, and those people would be forbidden to tell anyone where they were while they were being held, or tell anyone where they had been when they got out of there? And if they did they would be prosecuted?

It is all in the name of the "war on terror" but it sounds like we are on our way to Argentina in the 70's (my dad escaped from there with his family as a child) and other similar places/times. Can you imagine, as a mother, your child disappearing one day, the police refusing to help search, and her wandering back three or four weeks later, dazed and confused, with unexplained bruises and cuts which she couldn't talk about? And this is actual, modern times, in completely developed countries we are talking about.

[hotShot]

Obviously there is a need for some sort of "papers" to identify yourself.
It should not be to easy to make false ones.

I really don't see, why this ID should cost more because it is registered nationwide and I don't see why this ID should only be registered "locally".

But this won't make a difference in the "war against terrorism".

Terrorism and child abuse/porn are politicians favorite arguments, because any opposition can be discredited to help terrorists and criminals.

[mike777]

hotShot, on Aug 19 2007, 01:56 AM, said:

Obviously there is a need for some sort of "papers" to identify yourself.
It should not be to easy to make false ones.

I really don't see, why this ID should cost more because it is registered nationwide and I don't see why this ID should only be registered "locally".

But this won't make a difference in the "war against terrorism".

Terrorism and child abuse/porn are politicians favorite arguments, because any opposition can be discredited to help terrorists and criminals.

Why in this post and in many others keep blaming politicians....???


We get the government we deserve.
Repeat after me...you are not ...not a victim

[Gerben42]

I think from the government's point of view it's 50x better to have 1 type of ID to make copy-proof than to have 50 (1 for each state) and the criminals choosing the easiest one to fake.

[hotShot]

mike777, on Aug 19 2007, 09:29 AM, said:

Why in this post and in many others keep blaming politicians....???


We get the government we deserve.
Repeat after me...you are not ...not a victim

Sorry to correct you, but we get the government the majority deserves.

[skjaeran]

hotShot, on Aug 19 2007, 11:20 AM, said:

mike777, on Aug 19 2007, 09:29 AM, said:

Why in this post and in many others keep blaming politicians....???


We get the government we deserve.
Repeat after me...you are not ...not a victim

Sorry to correct you, but we get the government the majority deserves.

Well, if you can't convince enough to your view and get the government you think you deserve, maybe you really don't deserve it.....

[pbleighton]

Quote

We get the government we deserve.

Sorry, Mike, but I do NOT deserve George Bush and his rape of the Consitution.

Peter

[mike777]

Ok you are all victims. !!!!!

You do not get your neighbor to vote other.....you are pity/helpless/innocent/.... piiiful vicims.

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Aug 19 2007, 02:40 PM, said:

Ok you are all victims. !!!!!

You do not get your neighbor to vote other.....you are pity/helpless/innocent/.... piiiful vicims.

Its quite sad watching the American Right descend so completely into ignorant authoritarianism. I never agreed with Republicans on social issues or taxation. However, there was a small amount of common ground regarding the rights of the individual.

When I went to school the expression "Tyranny of the Majority" was a prominent part of the lessons on civics. Your concept that we "get the government we deserve" is antithetical to this notions. Certain rights are to be protected, regardless of what whim d'jour the majority of the population happens to be supporting.

Indeed, many of the founders were exceedingly skeptical about the capabilities of the majority to govern effectively. There is a reason that systems like the Electoral College and Poll Taxes were put into place to deliberately disenfranchise the riff raff.

Personally, I tend to be a bit more optimistic about peoples capabilities for rational decision making. However, watching the emergence of propaganda outlets like Fox News does give me pause for thought.

[pbleighton]

Quote

You do not get your neighbor to vote other.....you are pity/helpless/innocent/.... piiiful vicims.

Somehow I can't stop Bush and Cheney from lying. I guess that's my fault.

Following your logic, Mike:

1. Hitler was democratically elected.
2. The Germans, including Jewish Germans, got the government they deserved.
3. Therefore Jews should stop whining about the Holocaust.

Did I get that right?

Peter

[Al_U_Card]

You can more easily control and manipulate that which you can identify and locate accurately.

Freedom is the ability to move how and when you need.

Imprisonment is having your freedom subject to scrutiny and restriction.

A dictatorial and totalitarian regime will always be doing things for "your" good, otherwise you wouldn't accept their edicts and this would require suppression that they may not yet be in a position to deal with. Once all of the control measures are in place and the troops are able to suppress and the police are able to control and the laws are made to restrict.....well, there you have it. You are done.

[Winstonm]

Mike, a small correction to your statement: we get the government the Supreme Court elected in 2000.

[Winstonm]

Quote

Somehow I can't stop Bush and Cheney from lying. I guess that's my fault.

If it were only lies, perhaps the damage would not have been so great. Unfortunately, Cheney's unrelenting quest to transform the republic into a executive monarchy has been basically unchallenged and, maybe worse, totally opaque, cloaked in claims of national security and executive privaledge.

The mantra has been, "We know it; therefore you don't need to know it; we have made a decision; and that's all you need to know."