[jim420]

RHO opens 2♠. What is your bid now?

Scoring: IMP

W N E S
- - - 2♠
?

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EDIT: Oops, typo - minors mistakenly switched, now corrected.

This post has been edited by jim420: 2007-August-19, 04:45

[skjaeran]

Double seems obvious IMO.
I'd love to have another ♥, but you can't have it all...
If agreements restricted me from doubling, I'd pass, not bid 3♦.

[Blofeld]

Opening hand, stiff spade, 345 in the other suits - nothing other than double even occurs, which makes me worry that I've missed the point of the problem.

[pbleighton]

Double, but I understand 3D.

Nothing else is comprehensible.

Peter

[mcphee]

100% t/o dble, isn't this exactly what you have ? 3D is not catering to the best advantages. Not such a bad suit but you could easily miss a H game.

[pbleighton]

Quote

100% t/o dble, isn't this exactly what you have ? 3D is not catering to the best advantages. Not such a bad suit but you could easily miss a H game.

No, you don't have a fourth heart, which is what make this a choice.

Peter

[jim420]

The full hand (kibbed this...)

Scoring: IMP

---

If you double (as most would), the auction goes

2♠ X XX

What can EW do now?

[Fluffy]

I'd double, but close to pass since hand is quite poor.

[mikeh]

Double of 2♠ seems clear. It's the kind of double we never like making, but passing is even worse, and 3♦ is the third choice, not the second.

So the opps (may) have us. Too bad. If you decide that you should pass 2♠ because this hand may arise, may I suggest never getting out of bed. It's a dangerous world out there, and no winning bridge player has ever gone through life without getting tagged for a big number every now and then.

As it is, after redouble - p - p it is close between 2N or 3♦. 2N as a scramble makes a lot of sense...
Partner actually has a preference: for hearts, unfortunately.

If he bids 3♥, we are going to be in trouble.

If he passes, expressing no preference, we'd get to 3♦ and there is a very good chance (close to 100%) that North will take his sure 420/450 by bidding 4♠. After all, for all he knows, east is 3=2=4=4, and his partner has a minimum, not a super max with Axxx in trump.

BTW, the usual rule about doubling and then bidding a suit showing a huge hand takes a back seat to survival in these penalty redouble situations.

[cherdano]

mikeh, on Aug 19 2007, 12:19 PM, said:

As it is, after redouble - p - p it is close between 2N or 3♦. 2N as a scramble makes a lot of sense...
Partner actually has a preference: for hearts, unfortunately.

In the partnerships where I have discussed this, 2S X XX P couldn't happen here, as we play this as a penalty pass. I am not saying Mike is wrong of course, just that it may be dangerous to pass the East hand with no agreements. (Given our agreements, I would bid 2N.) On this hand, I would certainly prefer to have Mike's agreement

[ralph23]

jim420, on Aug 19 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

The full hand (kibbed this...)

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ A98 ♥ AQ85 ♦ 4 ♣ AT832 ♠ J ♥ KJ2 ♦ KQT92 ♣ KJ94 ♠ 764 ♥ T943 ♦ J86 ♣ Q65 ♠ KQT532 ♥ 76 ♦ A753 ♣ 7

If you double (as most would), the auction goes

2♠ X XX

What can EW do now?

We play Pass by East shows no preference and asks doubler to find his own parking place. Unfortunately, East has 4♥ so he would bid those in our method.

An interesting point is: East could use 2nt as an artificial call in these circumstances. But what would it mean (if you were to construct an agreement for it, that is)??... "I have 4 of the unbid major and prefer that, but I also have support for both the minors"?

Hard to see how 2nt by East could ever be to play in this auction.....

This post has been edited by ralph23: 2007-August-19, 13:01

[han]

Agree that pass is easy if available, but we don't play it as such. Any thoughts on this matter? How often will it be useful to play 2SXX in practice?

[skjaeran]

cherdano, on Aug 19 2007, 08:28 PM, said:

mikeh, on Aug 19 2007, 12:19 PM, said:

As it is, after redouble - p - p it is close between 2N or 3♦. 2N as a scramble makes a lot of sense...
Partner actually has a preference: for hearts, unfortunately.

In the partnerships where I have discussed this, 2S X XX P couldn't happen here, as we play this as a penalty pass. I am not saying Mike is wrong of course, just that it may be dangerous to pass the East hand with no agreements. (Given our agreements, I would bid 2N.) On this hand, I would certainly prefer to have Mike's agreement

The standard meaning of pass here is no preference. So undiscussed I'd not think it possible that partner would take it as penalty.

I don't think it's very useful playing it as penalty here - that will happen so seldom I prefer to play it as no preference. And then 2NT by doubler is Scramble.

[Free]

jim420, on Aug 19 2007, 02:36 PM, said:

The full hand (kibbed this...)

Scoring: IMP

---

If you double (as most would), the auction goes

2♠ X XX

What can EW do now?

1st question: Dbl, this is pure, a 4 card ♥ is not necessary to make a 2-level takeout double like this...

Now, when they RDbl, East should pass and West should bid 3♦. If East has 2 suits, he should bid 2NT (but he doesn't, and no clear prefference either, so pass), if West has 2 suits without prefference, he'll bid 2NT as well. Since East passed, West has a clear prefference for ♦.

[skjaeran]

I think it's correct to pass as no preference with this east hand over the double. 2NT by east would be scramble to me, suggesting two places to play. After pass west would bid 3♦ and east happily pass.

[kgr]

Last Friday we had the bidding at MP's (2S was Muiderberg):
(2S)-P-(3S)-DBL
(P)-?
With 8HCP and 1=3=5=4 distribution the player (playing in highest division in Belgium) decided to bid 4H. That is why I don't like a DBL very much here. You could end up in a 3-3 fit?

[lowerline]

kgr, on Aug 19 2007, 05:28 PM, said:

Last Friday we had the bidding at MP's (2S was Muiderberg):
(2S)-P-(3S)-DBL
(P)-?
With 8HCP and 1=3=5=4 distribution the player (playing in highest division in Belgium) decided to bid 4H. That is why I don't like a DBL very much here. You could end up in a 3-3 fit?

This is a different problem. Here I would never double for takeout without a 4crd heart suit.

Steven

[Free]

lowerline, on Aug 20 2007, 11:00 AM, said:

kgr, on Aug 19 2007, 05:28 PM, said:

Last Friday we had the bidding at MP's (2S was Muiderberg):
(2S)-P-(3S)-DBL
(P)-?
With 8HCP and 1=3=5=4 distribution the player (playing in highest division in Belgium) decided to bid 4H. That is why I don't like a DBL very much here. You could end up in a 3-3 fit?

This is a different problem. Here I would never double for takeout without a 4crd heart suit.

Steven

Yes you can... I don't see why you desperately need a 4 card ♥ at 3-level, but not at the 2-level The higher the auction is, the more flexible you should be, not the other way around. It's the same like opps open 3♠ and you have a nice 1-3-5-4 distribution: will you bid 4♦ or Double??

Note however that it's gonna be very rare that partner will only have 3 ♥s, since you have a singleton ♠ and partner should be short in ♠ as well.

[mr1303]

Well I wouldn't bid 4H on a 3 card suit here. Partner asked for my best suit, and that's diamonds, so I bid them. Whether I bid 4 or 5 diamonds depends on the rest of my hand, but I think bidding 4H on a 3 card suit is asking for trouble.