[PedroG]

Hi all,

Faced yet with another problem at the table...

Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ KQT ♥ A73 ♦ K95 ♣ QJ87

West North East South

Pass 1♠ 3♥ ?


Well soo many thing I want to show and so little space to show them why do they invent op's at this times

If no overcall, I would have also a hard time describing the hand, perhaps a 2♣ then jumping in spades. Jacoby2NT would need 1 more trump sure my 3 are of very good quality, nevertheless prefer not to cheat on partner on this issues

Now the 4♣ bid seem out of the way, I need to show support right away and somehow the strenght of the hand... if it was a simple overcall...

Pass 1♠ 2♥ 3♥

Would show support and strenght, so at the table I decide to cuebid also, partner can still decide to bid 4♠ or investigate slam if we wish.

Can you all please tell me what other possibilities I had?

Ty for all the enlightening answers
Pedro

[gwnn]

It's possibly a good idea to agree 4♥ to be a good raise to 4♠ with or without ♥ control. You can subsequently pass 4♠ with less than happy feelings. You don't really have any other possibilities, maybe a silly-ish jump to keycard, but that may take us too high, with potentially no ♣ control.

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: Preempts are a pain in the butt. Thats why the opponents make them

Comment 2: You have a 3=3=3=4 15 count. Given the complete garbage that so many people open on, game isn't assured, let alone slam. I would never consider leaping to keycard with this hand. I also think that 3N is a reasonable bid.

[Gerben42]

One thing I've learned is that when opps preempt, our suits often don't break. And that with Ace third, 3NT is a good proposition. I'll bid that.

I agree that a cuebid should not "promise" a ♥ control here though, just that without one you don't often have a slam try.

[ralph23]

We play 3nt to show specifically this kind of hand: 13-15 HCP, balanced, 3 trumps in partner's major. The ♥ Ace makes for a stopper so here 3nt is just fine. Partner will return to 4♠ most of the time in our system.

[hrothgar]

ralph23, on Aug 16 2007, 04:54 PM, said:

We play 3nt to show specifically this kind of hand: 13-15 HCP, balanced, 3 trumps in partner's major. The ♥ Ace makes for a stopper so here 3nt is just fine. Partner will return to 4♠ most of the time in our system.

What do you bid with hands that want to play 3NT?
It seems like a hand type you need to be able to show.

[PedroG]

Hi All,

And thanks for the answers, not sure if I like too much the 3NT bid here, I would assume it was some kind of sigoff (perhaps wrong), but for me is a way to say NoNo to any slam try we may have.

Now if partner open 12-14 actually there is never a slam, but if he is a just a bit stronger I would like to investigate futher.

Not having any specific the agrement with partner about the 3NT in this situation, in fact we are starting on SAYC, so don't really known what that would mean in that system.

About the opening, we are more or less strick on that, using a bit both rule of 20 and LTC to open hands, and partner is even a bit more conservative on this than I. So I known he probably will have a nice opening hand (almost never 10, rare 11, sure 12).

ty
Pedro

[jdonn]

I dislike 3NT very much holding Axx. This seems like a textbook 4♥ bid, then respecting partner's decision.

[hrothgar]

PedroG, on Aug 16 2007, 06:31 PM, said:

Hi All,

And thanks for the answers, not sure if I like too much the 3NT bid here, I would assume it was some kind of sigoff (perhaps wrong), but for me is a way to say NoNo to any slam try we may have.

Now if partner open 12-14 actually there is never a slam, but if he is a just a bit stronger I would like to investigate futher.

As I mentioned earlier, preempts are a pain in the butt. They put you under a lot of pressure and damage the accuracy of your constructive bidding.

With this said and done, I think that 3N stands out for a number of reasons:

1. Partner didn't open 1NT. If he has a balanced hand, he is going to pass 3NT and we'll rest in what is (probably) a good spot. If he has 18+, we will likely be in a positive to investigate slam.

2. If partner has a lot of shape, he's going to find another bid over 3NT

Admitedly, an auction like

1S - (3H) - 3N - (P)
4S

can be uncomfortable wide ranging, however, you are NOT going to be able to enjoy a perfect auction on every hand.

Equally significant,

I have a 15 count
RHO has shown some values (lets place him with a 5 count or so)

The odds strongly favor that partner has a minimum opening. I'm much more worried about getting too high if I take a strong action with my hand than I am about missing a slam.

[ralph23]

hrothgar, on Aug 16 2007, 09:39 AM, said:

What do you bid with hands that want to play 3NT?

Well, in the first place, you as responder can't possibly know that 3nt is right, or that nt is the right strain, can you??

All your partner has done is, open one of a major. That is a very wide ranging opening bid.

He might have an 8-bagger or even a 9-bagger with a void for all we know.

So we're just describing our hand by bidding 3nt and showing 3 pieces with a balanced 13-15 HCP count and scattered values.

As noted, this makes partner the captain and he can certainly pass 3nt if he has the right hand for it.

But it would be completely unilateral for responder to declare that 3nt must be "right" on the very limited information he has so far.

If you as responder have only 2 pieces and this point count range, then you can bid 2/1 in your longer minor, and let partner clarify his holding on his rebid.

Some people reverse the procedure and use 3nt with 2 pieces and 2/1 with 3; don't know that one is necessarily superior to the other.

[neilkaz]

This is a balanced 15 count and 4♠ is enough for me, not seeing the need to get PD too excited with 4♥ (although I consider that to be close)

[hrothgar]

ralph23, on Aug 16 2007, 07:19 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Aug 16 2007, 09:39 AM, said:

What do you bid with hands that want to play 3NT?

Well, in the first place, you as responder can't possibly know that 3nt is right, or that nt is the right strain, can you??

All your partner has done is, open one of a major. That is a very wide ranging opening bid.

He might have an 8-bagger or even a 9-bagger with a void for all we know.

So we're just describing our hand by bidding 3nt and showing 3 pieces with a balanced 13-15 HCP count and scattered values.

As noted, this makes partner the captain and he can certainly pass 3nt if he has the right hand for it.

But it would be completely unilateral for responder to declare that 3nt must be "right" on the very limited information he has so far.

If you as responder have only 2 pieces and this point count range, then you can bid 2/1 in your longer minor, and let partner clarify his holding on his rebid.

Some people reverse the procedure and use 3nt with 2 pieces and 2/1 with 3; don't know that one is necessarily superior to the other.

Sorry, I misunderstood your posting. I had assumed that you were describing a 3NT bid in competition.

[cherdano]

3N?? This looks like a very normal 4H.

[barmar]

ralph23, on Aug 16 2007, 11:19 AM, said:

If you as responder have only 2 pieces and this point count range, then you can bid 2/1 in your longer minor, and let partner clarify his holding on his rebid.

How do you bid 2/1 when RHO has jumped to the 3 level?

[keylime]

I bid 3NT due to Gerben's rationale, and the fact I have a slow playing hand. Pard can show a shape hand with a rebid of anything but pass.

[skjaeran]

cherdano, on Aug 16 2007, 07:07 PM, said:

3N?? This looks like a very normal 4H.

IMO it's a borderline decision, 4♥ or 4♠.
♥A, good trumps and a ♣ suit with some potential swings it to 4♥ for me.

[jdonn]

I want to make 2 points. One is that 4♥ is not only a slam exploratory move, it also sets up a forcing pass. This is crucial if the next hand bids 5♥ so that partner can contribute to the decision. If you just bid 4♠ he will assume a different hand. This hand is well within the range of 4♥, which shows a full valued game force or better.

The other is in regard to this sentiment that several have expressed.

keylime, on Aug 16 2007, 02:30 PM, said:

I bid 3NT due to Gerben's rationale, and the fact I have a slow playing hand. Pard can show a shape hand with a rebid of anything but pass.

I don't know why everyone is assuming that. Especially on a minimum, partner is not usually going to pull 3NT. Even if he is 5-5 with a minor or has 6 spades (and you know from your hand it would be a bad suit) he will normally pass, that is just normal. If he pulls 3NT there is no going back to it.

[pclayton]

3N would be a disaster if RHO was unkind enough to hold an outside entry.

4♥ looks normal. While this hand is chock full of losers, there are some very nice features and the ♥Axx looks especially efficient. I'll respect pard's signoff.