[benlessard]

We play 5nt as always pick-a-slam and the frequency of it is astounding. Here some tough boards to bid without it.

Scoring: IMP

---

1♠--------------2♥ 2/1 GF
3♦ (xtra)-------3♠
4♣--------------4♦
4♥--------------5♣
5♦--------------6♠


The 3♦ showed some extras
They play serious 3nt so the 4♣ cue-bid denied having "extras+extras"

probably 6♥ by north should be pick-a-slam but if it to play you're going to get a bad score in 6♠.


The next hand was modified. But you can see that you want to play in the suit with the best spot.

Scoring: IMP

---

One thing is sure P-A-Slam is much much more useful then 5nt Josephine

[FrancesHinden]

Aha, another thread in the 'proof by example' category.

Perhaps I'll start a thread proving that 5NT Josephine is much more useful, by quoting a couple of hands where it works well.

[Echognome]

I can't imagine if all you've done in an auction is bid and raised a suit you'd want to use pick-a-slam.

E.g. 1♥ - (3♦) - 4♦ - (5♦)
5NT = ?

[SoTired]

Next is the "4C is always Gerber" and how wonderful that is.............

[Blofeld]

SoTired, on Aug 13 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

Next is the "4C is always Gerber" and how wonderful that is.............

Wow! I'm glad to find someone else who has seen the light!

4C as always Gerber just avoids so many misunderstandings!!!!1oneone

[Echognome]

Blofeld, on Aug 13 2007, 10:33 AM, said:

SoTired, on Aug 13 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

Next is the "4C is always Gerber" and how wonderful that is.............

Wow! I'm glad to find someone else who has seen the light!

4C as always Gerber just avoids so many misunderstandings!!!!1oneone

Agree Owen. Then if you add Rainbow Gerber, the clarity will be astounding.

My favorite "always Gerber" auction was something like:

1♥ - 2♣ - 2♥ - 3♣
P - P - 3♥ - P
P - 4♣ (Alert!)

Balancing Gerber rocks.

[jdonn]

Very informative post, ty I think I learned something.

[kenrexford]

I have played what I believe many will shortly vote as clearly the most useful meaning to a 5NT call in a slam auction, hands down.

We called it the "OS5NT" Convention, short for the "Oh ***** 5NT" Convention.

The idea is that a 5NT call, in a confusing slam sequence, announces that the partner has no earthly idea what is going on. It demands that partner do something intelligent, based upon what he thinks he knows so far.

The ACBL approved the convention. I really strongly suggest adding this to your arsenal.

[pclayton]

kenrexford, on Aug 13 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

I have played what I believe many will shortly vote as clearly the most useful meaning to a 5NT call in a slam auction, hands down.

We called it the "OS5NT" Convention, short for the "Oh ***** 5NT" Convention.

The idea is that a 5NT call, in a confusing slam sequence, announces that the partner has no earthly idea what is going on.  It demands that partner do something intelligent, based upon what he thinks he knows so far.

The ACBL approved the convention.  I really strongly suggest adding this to your arsenal. 

Funny you mention this. I played this in a strong club environment and we had it on the cc.

The agreement was "I don't know what happened, but the wheels have fallen off". Judging what you think you know about my hand, pick a slam.

It never came up except in some practice bidding sessions.

Ken; I would think you'd have more use for this than others (just kidding )

[han]

kenrexford, on Aug 13 2007, 01:47 PM, said:

I have played what I believe many will shortly vote as clearly the most useful meaning to a 5NT call in a slam auction, hands down.

We called it the "OS5NT" Convention, short for the "Oh ***** 5NT" Convention.

The idea is that a 5NT call, in a confusing slam sequence, announces that the partner has no earthly idea what is going on. It demands that partner do something intelligent, based upon what he thinks he knows so far.

The ACBL approved the convention. I really strongly suggest adding this to your arsenal.

Could you give us some examples?

[han]

(uh oh, did I really just ask Ken for examples? This is going to be weird!)

[keylime]

Between OS5NT, Rainbow Gerber, and the "Mandatory 4NT Keycard" bids, bridge has shown remarkable progression in its slam bidding.....

[kenrexford]

Hannie, on Aug 13 2007, 02:14 PM, said:

(uh oh, did I really just ask Ken for examples? This is going to be weird!)

I have actually seen the use of "Leaping OS5NT," a jump to 5NT to nip the confusion in the bud. Perhaps a "got no PICTURE of wtf is going on JUMP?"

I had an OS5NT bid against me in the Vanderbilts, explained as such (although not with the same name).

A classic example, however, might be a contested auction where 4NT pops up in an undiscussed situation. Rather than showing some sort of two keys and a void junk, which might already have been eliminated as a possibility anyway, a 5NT response to 4NT classically says, "I'm not sure what trumps are for your 4NT call, and my answer would be different if I guessed wrong."

Interestingly, partner may be able to figure out what you have if you have an inability to answer either way.

And, yes, I admittedly and actually do think that a more complicated structure of slam probes like mine, at least while you are working out the kinks and memory problems, would justify OS5NT more than a "normal" approach. LOL

[skjaeran]

kenrexford, on Aug 13 2007, 08:47 PM, said:

I have played what I believe many will shortly vote as clearly the most useful meaning to a 5NT call in a slam auction, hands down.

We called it the "OS5NT" Convention, short for the "Oh ***** 5NT" Convention.

The idea is that a 5NT call, in a confusing slam sequence, announces that the partner has no earthly idea what is going on. It demands that partner do something intelligent, based upon what he thinks he knows so far.

The ACBL approved the convention. I really strongly suggest adding this to your arsenal.

This reminds me of a pair here in Oslo playing a (too) complicated relay system a long time ago. Luckily for them they knew this and had added gadgets...

Once in a relay auction they explained a 3♣ bid as: Partner, I've forgotten the system, please decide the contract. In another auction they explaind a 3♦ bid as: Partner, YOU have forgotten the system. I'll place the contract next bid.

[benlessard]

Quote

Aha, another thread in the 'proof by example' category.

My intent wasnt to provide proof, just some example of what struck me the most in my last tournament.

About 10 slam were bid at the 6 level with shaky or possibly shaky trumps and most of the time there was an alternative trumps suit.We didnt saw no good grandslam.

We play a relay system and spiral scan so we tend to ask for aces KQ of trumps before 5nt. For us the frequency and the usefulness of the 5nt is way above my expectation.


Here a hand where we lost bunch of imps.

Scoring: IMP

---

3♦ ---pass----3♥----(3♠)
pass-----pass----?????

Our opponenent were playing strong 2`s and disciplined preempt. The guy bid 6♦ at the other table 5♠X down 1.


Another bad hand for us.

Scoring: IMP

---

1♣ (15+)--------1♥ (5card could have 0pts)
1♠ relay---------1nt (4 clubs)
2♥ (♥ pref 15-17)----3♣ GF with 5♣
3♦ KEYC♥ ------------3♠ 0 or 3
3NT Q♥ ?----------------4♣ No
4♦ K♣ ?---------------4♥ No

pass

6♥ making 7 at the other table.

I think my partner should have told me hes got the Q♥ but its not so clear because it can easily lead to a bad slam.

Another slam that come to mind is.

Scoring: IMP

---

1nt (12-14)-------------2♣ !
2♦ ! -----------------3♣ ROMEX
3♠ (show 4♠)---4♥ 2 Keyc no Q♠
6♠

making

I think my slam try is reasonable and partner with a nice maximum had an easy 6 to bid.

Note that change the hand sligthly and 6♦ could easily be the best spot.

In my experience more imps are lost because of slam played in the wrong suit compared to slam played at the wrong level

Edited (mean between 6 and 7)

[han]

benlessard, on Aug 13 2007, 11:53 PM, said:

In my experience more imps are lost because of slam played in the wrong suit compared to slam played at the wrong level

In my experience more imps are lost because of games played at the slam level or slams played at the game level. I guess I'm really bad.

[benlessard]

Meant between 6 and 7... because with 5nt your are already commited to slam. The point i was trying to make is that its probably more useful to have a tool that allow you to play in an secondary trumps then to have 1 extra tool for looking for 7.