[asc]

Scoring: MP

1♣ 2♦
2♥ 3♦
3♠ 4♠
4NT 5♣
5♠ pass (DOUBLE)

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I need a ♦ lead,a♥ lead will be OK for me(♣ and ♠ lead - forbiden),
Lightner double in 2 suits+ a penalty double on 5 level. Don´t answer just PENALTY double please, but something original.Ah yes the system is precision.

[kenrexford]

This is a classic Xango Double. You are doubling a suit that you don't want partner to lead, even if he could lead his void. Your double tells him to lead the higher of the other two suits. As there are three "other suits," he has a choice.

If Declarer has the diamond King, partner is supposed to lead a heart. This allows you to make a surrounding play return of the diamond Queen. As the only plausible reason, to Declarer, for you to make this play is that you know that partner has a spade entry, Declarer will play the Ace or King of spades from the wrong side first, hoping that you started with Jx.

If Dummy has the diamond King, partner is supposed to lead his Jack. If he does not have the Jack, he gives count. However, he always gives count as if he has two of them, to get Declarer to trump high on the third round.

This comes up all the time.

[ArtK78]

OW OW OW OW OW!

Ken, your postings always give me a headache!

And I mean that in the most complimentary way.

Anyway, on a serious note (if that is allowed), if you are unwilling to call this a Lightner Double, and I suspect that Ted Lightner would disown it, call it an "out of the blue" double. Clearly, the double came from out of the blue. The meaning of the double is not clear, other than you do not expect partner to lead a black suit. Since that is what you intend, by all means go for it!

Is that really your hand in third seat against 5S????

[ralph23]

kenrexford, on Jul 25 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

If Dummy has the diamond King, partner is supposed to lead his Jack.

Actually this very hand came up in our game last night, and partner didn't lead his Jack of ♦ in this instance, but instead led his Ten, which really surprised me because I had the ten of ♦.

It was some sort of signal, when he led a card that I actually held, but I didn't get the meaning, and we let the contract make as a result. Oh well....

[kenrexford]

This reminds me of another Xango carding agreement, named after the person who came up with the signal (but who shall remain nameless).

The first occurrence I saw this signal used was when this Xango player signalled a high diamond with no diamond value in his hand. When his partner asked why he had signalled for a diamond, the Xango player replied that the positive signal told his partner that he had the King of diamonds and asked him to cash it.

This seemed to make little sense, as his partner would be looking at the King of diamonds and would be able to cash it on his own initiative, one would think. However, a few months later, the Xango player had the King of diamonds as the setting trick but did not cash it. When asked, he noted that his diamond King was hidden behind other cards, such that he did not realize that he had the diamond King. Clearly, then, this Xango signal would have worked, as the Xango player, upon seeing the demand that he cash the diamond King, would have looked at his hand better and would have spotted the King.

This is not precisely leading the other diamond King. Rather it is a signal showing the other diamond King. Some people show, some people ask.

An interesting negative inference arises when you use this convention. Suppose, for example, that your signal a low diamond, telling partner that he does not have the King of diamonds even though he does. This is an interesting problem, but it suggests a duck, for any number of reasons. The classic is the need for a switch. However, this also helps when partner thinks that he has the diamond King because his heart King is mis-sorted in with his diamonds.

[BillHiggin]

Strangly enough - Ken's explanations make more sense than the OP.

[asc]

Scoring: MP

W N E S
1♣P2♦P
2♥P3♦P
3♠P4♠P
4NT P 5♣P
5♠P P DOUBLE
All PASS

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After a ♦ lead -5 =1400. But the PCs analyse shows that they make 1♦ and 1♥, and we- 1♠ and.... 6♣ !! WEE WAA WOO WAA !! The opponents played in our second suit. We was above the minimax: +1370 . Any new suggestions about the DOUBLE ?

[nige1]

How do you make 6♣ single dummy? OH the penny has dropped/ I see now.

[keylime]

I used to call this time of double the "uh oh we're in deep trouble now".

[Robert]

Hi everyone

This double is 'bunny bashing.' You played an earlier hand against this pair and you know that they cannot bid. The double merely increases the penalty.

Players that cannot bid will normally play even worse after you double them. They(and you) expect them to go down in a freely bid(and now doubled) contract.

Regards,
Robert

[bid_em_up]

nige1, on Aug 1 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

How do you make 6♣ single dummy? OH the penny has dropped/ I see now.

Try making it on a trump lead. (I don't think its possible).

[asc]

bid_em_up, on Aug 1 2007, 10:28 AM, said:

nige1, on Aug 1 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

How do you make 6♣ single dummy? OH the penny has dropped/ I see now.

Try making it on a trump lead. (I don't think its possible).

If the PC says yes- it means YES! U take the trump lead from dummy and play ♠. What now ?- if E takes with ♠K -trump finesse next. If W takes wit the ♠A, -♠K drops after 2 more rounds ♠ rufs. We make 5♣, 3♦, 2 ♠ rufs, and 2 ♠ tricks.

[asc]

Robert, on Aug 1 2007, 09:49 AM, said:

Hi everyone

This double is 'bunny bashing.'  You played an earlier hand against this pair and you know that they cannot bid.  The double merely increases the penalty.

Players that cannot bid will normally play even worse after you double them.  They(and you) expect them to go down in a freely bid(and now doubled) contract.

Regards,
Robert

Nice ! I take that 'BUNNY BASHING" double. That have to be the name. You are partly right about the pair. The right hand opponent was a top player but the LHO was her younger boy frend (or sponsor ...not sure).

[bid_em_up]

deleted

[cherdano]

bid_em_up, on Aug 3 2007, 09:40 AM, said:

asc, on Aug 3 2007, 02:58 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Aug 1 2007, 10:28 AM, said:

nige1, on Aug 1 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

How do you make 6♣ single dummy? OH the penny has dropped/ I see now.

Try making it on a trump lead. (I don't think its possible).

If the PC says yes- it means YES! U take the trump lead from dummy and play ♠. What now ?- if E takes with ♠K -trump finesse next. If W takes wit the ♠A, -♠K drops after 2 more rounds ♠ rufs. We make 5♣, 3♦, 2 ♠ rufs, and 2 ♠ tricks.

Get serious please, you will not get two spade tricks. I don't know what you mean by PC (either Personal Computer or Playing Captain) but in either case, its wrong.

East will win the 1st spade with either the K or the 10, depending on what card you played from dummy and return his 2nd trump.

You will still have to lose another spade....since you can now only ruff two spades in hand, not three, and you do not have the spots to create a second spade trick via any sort of ruffing finesse.

Maybe you should look twice before using a tone like this. If RHO wins the K when you lead from dummy, you take the ruffing finesse against the A.

[bid_em_up]

deleted

[bid_em_up]

cherdano, on Aug 3 2007, 10:54 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Aug 3 2007, 09:40 AM, said:

asc, on Aug 3 2007, 02:58 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Aug 1 2007, 10:28 AM, said:

nige1, on Aug 1 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

How do you make 6♣ single dummy? OH the penny has dropped/ I see now.

Try making it on a trump lead. (I don't think its possible).

If the PC says yes- it means YES! U take the trump lead from dummy and play ♠. What now ?- if E takes with ♠K -trump finesse next. If W takes wit the ♠A, -♠K drops after 2 more rounds ♠ rufs. We make 5♣, 3♦, 2 ♠ rufs, and 2 ♠ tricks.

Get serious please, you will not get two spade tricks. I don't know what you mean by PC (either Personal Computer or Playing Captain) but in either case, its wrong.

East will win the 1st spade with either the K or the 10, depending on what card you played from dummy and return his 2nd trump.

You will still have to lose another spade....since you can now only ruff two spades in hand, not three, and you do not have the spots to create a second spade trick via any sort of ruffing finesse.

Maybe you should look twice before using a tone like this. If RHO wins the K when you lead from dummy, you take the ruffing finesse against the A.

Nah, I just need to figure out which hand is dummy first .... LOL.

He's leading the 7 spades 1st. I'm reading leading a spade from dummy as leading from the long spade hand.....

[asc]

1)Get serious please, you will not get two spade tricks. I don't know what you mean by PC (either Personal Computer or Playing Captain) but in either case, its wrong.

2)East will win the 1st spade with either the K or the 10, depending on what card you played from dummy and return his 2nd trump.

3)You will still have to lose another spade....since you can now only ruff two spades in hand, not three, and you do not have the spots to create a second spade trick via any sort of ruffing finesse.

bid_em_up 's thinking (deleted next -why )
1)OK PC I meaned just a program - deep finesse "" I think not sure. And this program analyse the deals VERY precisely. So a human being can miss something,but the program- NO. So if somebody says "" but in either case, its wrong." is just stupid.

2)In the books USUALLY when we play the game the dummy is North, so I just forgot to mention that if we play 6♣, the dummy is North.

3)And when I posted first that 6♣ is OK the answer was ""Try making it on a trump lead. (I don't think its possible). "" - now there we have a new idea no more trump lead but wrong understanding of ♠. OK just STOP reporting-when You can't admit your mistake!

[bid_em_up]

Its that ugly picture. It distracts me.