[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  Pass
 1♦    1♥    Pass  3♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[jtfanclub]

Heck no.

I don't even know if you're asking about South or West, since they both seem equally ridiculous.

East has a call, though. 3♦ gets my vote if you play that as weak.
(over 1 heart, of course)

[ArtK78]

West cannot pass over 3H.

3S would imply at least 4-5 in the pointed suits.

Double showing a very strong hand stands out. That might get you to 5D, which is cold. It could also get you to 5C, which is not cold.

4S is probably going to fail after a trump lead. There are 10 tricks, sort of, but if you ruff two hearts in dummy and establish your long diamond you will be tapped in hearts and go down. If you do not ruff two hearts in dummy you can't come to 10 tricks.

[helene_t]

No you should not bid 3♠ and that for a very fundamental reason: extra strength alone is not reason for bidding on in hi-level auctions without a fit for partner. If anything you could double but I approve your pass.

Agree with jtfanclub that E should have bid 3♦.

[mike777]

Disagree with all these comments that east should bid 3D. I do agree with bidding 2D but I think pass by east is ok. East only has 4d not 5.

[pbleighton]

Quote

No you should not bid 3♠ and that for a very fundamental reason: extra strength alone is not reason for bidding on in hi-level auctions without a fit for partner. If anything you could double but I approve your pass.

Agree with jtfanclub that E should have bid 3D.

I agree, though 2D by east is reasonable as well.

Peter

[jtfanclub]

ArtK78, on Jul 31 2007, 05:07 PM, said:

4S is probably going to fail after a trump lead.  There are 10 tricks, sort of, but if you ruff two hearts in dummy and establish your long diamond you will be tapped in hearts and go down.  If you do not ruff two hearts in dummy you can't come to 10 tricks.

Ruff three hearts in dummy.

Whoops! Trump lead. Hmmm...

1. Trump won in dummy.
2. Club ace.
Another club.
4. Win...let's say another trump.
Play another club, tossing a heart.
5. Ruff the heart on the board (they can't lead another trump)
6. Play another club, overruffing as necessary.
...

Nope, you're right, goes down on a trump lead, makes on a heart lead.

If your partner doesn't hang you by passing the 1 heart bid, now you can bid 3♠ because your partner can at the worst back into 4 diamonds. As it is, you have the unenviable choices of double or pass.

This post has been edited by jtfanclub: 2007-July-31, 16:43

[ralph23]

No on 3♠. East did not make a negative double so if he by some miracle has 4 spades, he is broke.

3♦ by East is always weak here & is much more attractive that usual with only 4 pieces, due to the heartless nature of East .

This gets East's hand off his chest immediately and makes West captain and that's great in competitive auctions.

2♦ would show more values than East actually has, imho.

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Jul 31 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

Disagree with all these comments that east should bid 3D. I do agree with bidding 2D but I think pass by east is ok. East only has 4d not 5.

If you feel that 4 cards and a void isn't support, then bid 3 clubs.

I would never pass because I had *too much* shape, or *too much* support.

[Double !]

Hmmmm. Wayne.
This hand looks familiar............lololol. I just knew it would wind up on the forum.

DHL

[sceptic]

haha, well I never bid 3 spades, but I was tempted

[lowerline]

sceptic, on Jul 31 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

- Pass Pass Pass
1♦ 1♥ Pass 3♥
Pass Pass Pass

A weak 2♦ or 3♦ by east would have worked well here, but I suppose you are not playing a system that allows this.
For the problem at hand, west should have doubled 3♥. A more interesting question would be what east should bid now or what west should do if east bids 4♣?

Steven

[Fluffy]

East can pass, bid 2♦ (I don't like it at all) or 3♦ (I don't like it much)

But it is west's bid what it is being questioned. And he can either pass, or double. Double is the normal bid. 3♠ is not on, 3♠ shows a 4-6 (or 5-6 if you allow it in your methods), nothing to do with 4432.

If you double you might find 4♣ wich is a solid contract.

[ArtK78]

Or you might find 5D which is also a solid contract.

[FrancesHinden]

The basic principle of competitive bidding is that it is the hand with shape acts; balanced hands should keep quiet.

No-one has mentioned the NS bidding (because you were West, I imagine). But I would not pass on the South hand in third seat. I am a fairly conservative opening bidder and don't open light on rubbish, but when you have 100 honours to a five card suit, and you know it's not your hand on HCP, you have to act: open either 1H or 2H (weak).

Anyway, that's beside the point. What should EW be doing?

I don't understand how East can not raise diamonds looking at 4-card support and an outside shortage. 3D just looks like a down-the-middle pre-emptive raise, and that should get you to 5D.

West does not have a normal double of 3H, which should be for take-out with short hearts. You could double, on the basis that partner has short hearts, but that is really saying that you don't trust partner....

[bhall]

The auction tells W that partner holds no more than one ♥. So they are guranteed an 8-card fit somewhere, and partner can cover two of W's 6 losers with small trump. Add a pointed Q and a 4-level contract is likely to make.

Since partner did not raise ♦ despite his ♥ shortness, our fit is likely to be in a black suit. Thus, double stands out. We may fail by one at the 4 level, but we may also find a spade game or a minor part score. Either of these is better than 3♥ undoubled down one.

[han]

I agree that east should have acted, either 2D or 3D (my choice).

3S by west is crazy, the only alternative to pass is the double.

[ArtK78]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 1 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

West does not have a normal double of 3H, which should be for take-out with short hearts. You could double, on the basis that partner has short hearts, but that is really saying that you don't trust partner....

Or you could be doubling on the basis that you have half the deck in high cards.

Others have pointed out that West knows that partner cannot have more than one heart on the auction. Therefore, there must be an 8 card fit in one of the other suits.

West also knows that East is likely to have a near blizzard, so if the partnership is to get back into the auction, West must act.

Double is clear-cut.

[jtfanclub]

bhall, on Aug 1 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

The auction tells W that partner holds no more than one ♥. So they are guranteed an 8-card fit somewhere, and partner can cover two of W's 6 losers with small trump.

That assumes that the auction is honest. That's a hell of an assumption.

South just watched his partner, a passed hand, make a limp-in overcall, and the next player couldn't muster even a trash response. I don't know about you, but when I'm sitting South, my call in this auction doesn't show 6-9 hcp and 4+ hearts or whatever. It says "Let's see...what can I saw that will (censored) the auction up the most for West. Hmmm, 3 hearts ought to do it". What's my partner going to do? Bid 4♥? Double for penalties? I seriously doubt it. West has a powerhouse. South is bidding 3♥ to screw with West.

Assume what South (and therefore East) has at your own peril.

I mean, seriously, would you be shocked if North overcalled with a 4 card suit, and South jumped with a 3 card suit and club shortness? I wouldn't. That's why it's so important for East to show his hand early. It's a heck of a thing to trust the opponents when they know you have a strong hand.

[helene_t]

I don't like the "opps promised 9 hearts so p must have a singleton" reasoning. It's not in opps' interest to tell me what partner has. Besides, full disclosure has its limits: I can't know their style in details. For all I know opps may be in a 4-3 fit. I've been at the 3-level in a 4-2-fit in a preemptive auction myself. A non-alerted preemptive auction, it was, since p and I didn't know each others' insanity on beforehand.

I'd rather base my conclusion on p's holding on the basis of his own lack of bidding. Even if my confidence in p turns out to be unjustified at least my relationship with him/her will benefit. So if p had any values at all he must have clubs. With a near-yarb he could have spades but even then he will not bid 4♠ on his own and I won't bid it either. If he bids 4♦ over my double he almost certainly has only three of them. And I don't want him to play any number of clubs.

So pass.