[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

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(2♥) ?

If you double, partner bids 3♦

[hrothgar]

jillybean2, on Jul 22 2007, 04:41 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

(2♥) ?

If you double, partner bids 3♦

I'd start with a double.

It would be useful to know whether you're playing Lebensohl. If so, partner's 3♦ promises values and you should be steering towards a NT slam with you declaring. (If 3♦ promises values, the only real question is whether you think that you can make a grand)

[gwnn]

Definitely 3NT, should be a strong offer to play there.

What if I X and partner makes the majestic jump to 4♠?

[Echognome]

I also 3NT.

[Quantumcat]

Oh, good, I thought I would bid 3NT but thought it must be wrong!

[skjaeran]

gwnn, on Jul 22 2007, 07:35 AM, said:

Definitely 3NT, should be a strong offer to play there.

What if I X and partner makes the majestic jump to 4♠?

Partner's jump to 4♠ won't hurt you. You'll then have enough for 6NT at least.

I'd double on this, using lebensohl.
If I made a direct 3NT call that would show a long solid minor, ♥ stopper and an outside card (ace preferrably), a hand where I'd hope to take 9 tricks as soon as I gained the lead.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

X, followed by 3NT, although a direct 3NT
has in my opinion merrit and may be best.
although you are slightly to strong for it, but
not much, if you downgrade the hand (reasonable)
it will fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Isn't it something to discuss with p whether this hand is suitable for a direct 3N bid? Direct 3N suggests an inflexible hand while 3N via dbl shows a flexible hand. This hand looks borderline to me.

[jillybean]

I doubled and bid 3nt thinking this hand was too good for a direct 3nt.
My p/u p sided with the direct 3nt bidders.

I don't play Leb, maybe I should but its a bit of a guessing game and hard to know what to add without the benefit of a regular partner.

[goobers]

Does a direct 3N show this hand? It's unclear to me; I thought a jump to 3N might just show 9 running tricks, not a moose in HCP

[P_Marlowe]

goobers, on Jul 22 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Does a direct 3N show this hand? It's unclear to me; I thought a jump to 3N might just show 9 running tricks, not a moose in HCP

What is the difference?

3NT shows a hand, which will have a reasonable chance
of making 3NT oppossite an avg. hand.

If you hold a strong NT, say 16HCP, assume 8HCP for
the weak, than you have 16HCP missing, on average your
partner will hold 8HCP, not enough.
If you have 20HCP, you have 12HCP missing, on average
your partner will hold 6HCP, enough.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Jul 22 2007, 08:46 AM, said:

I doubled and bid 3nt thinking this hand was too good for a direct 3nt.
My p/u p sided with the direct 3nt bidders.

I don't play Leb, maybe I should but its a bit of a guessing game and hard to know what to add without the benefit of a regular partner.

I agree with your X then 3NT thinking this hand too strong for a direct 3NT.

I strongly suggest that you play Leb after doubles of weak 2's since it gives up so very little and I find it very useful to know when PD has decent values or not. Leb after overcalls of your 1NT openings is also quite useful.

That being said, I would also play that X followed by 3NT would show a hand that you felt was stronger than a direct jump to 3NT and if PD has good values here, he can continue and try for slam.

[goobers]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 22 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

goobers, on Jul 22 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Does a direct 3N show this hand?  It's unclear to me; I thought a jump to 3N might just show 9 running tricks, not a moose in HCP

What is the difference?

3NT shows a hand, which will have a reasonable chance
of making 3NT oppossite an avg. hand.

If you hold a strong NT, say 16HCP, assume 8HCP for
the weak, than you have 16HCP missing, on average your
partner will hold 8HCP, not enough.
If you have 20HCP, you have 12HCP missing, on average
your partner will hold 6HCP, enough.

With kind regards
Marlowe

You're saying there's no difference between A Kx Qxx AKQJxxx and the given hand?

[P_Marlowe]

goobers, on Jul 23 2007, 12:45 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jul 22 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

goobers, on Jul 22 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Does a direct 3N show this hand?  It's unclear to me; I thought a jump to 3N might just show 9 running tricks, not a moose in HCP

What is the difference?

3NT shows a hand, which will have a reasonable chance
of making 3NT oppossite an avg. hand.

If you hold a strong NT, say 16HCP, assume 8HCP for
the weak, than you have 16HCP missing, on average your
partner will hold 8HCP, not enough.
If you have 20HCP, you have 12HCP missing, on average
your partner will hold 6HCP, enough.

With kind regards
Marlowe

You're saying there's no difference between A Kx Qxx AKQJxxx and the given hand?

Yes, both may be bidding 3NT, although I may not
bid 3NT with the hand you gave, but understand why
it may be best.

You dont have a lot of room between 2H and 3NT to
differentiate all hands.
The point is, even if 3NT would promises a long suit, does
it really help you to find 6, how often you will be leaving the
safe harbor 3NT? Slams are rare.

And if you bid X with the original bal. 20 count, you may
receive a 2NT Lebensohl response, and you go dwon in
2NT (or 3NT), while it would be cold if played from your side.

With your hand, you can either bid 3NT or show
a strong hand with clubs, or a strong hand in 18-20
range with a heart stopper.

Which option you choose is up to you, and you will see
at the end, which option would have worked better.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

I would bid 3NT. The only good reason I can think of to double first is if you want your partner to next pull your 3NT bid with 6 spades always and 5 spades much of the time, which I really don't want. I think it's too inflexible to say direct 3NT promises a solid minor, since there are hands without a solid minor where you still don't want to suggest partner pull 3NT to his major.

[goobers]

jdonn, on Jul 23 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

I would bid 3NT. The only good reason I can think of to double first is if you want your partner to next pull your 3NT bid with 6 spades always and 5 spades much of the time, which I really don't want. I think it's too inflexible to say direct 3NT promises a solid minor, since there are hands without a solid minor where you still don't want to suggest partner pull 3NT to his major.

Thanks, that's basically what I wanted clarification on.

I guess P_Marlowe was getting at the same thing, but I'm too dense to pick up on it.

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Jul 21 2007, 08:41 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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(2♥) ?

If you double, partner bids 3♦

Prefer a direct 3nt

Whatever it means I think I got it. A hand with a lot of something and a heart stopper and often less than 4 spades. I note the 4 queens as no trumpy.