[DWM]

Scoring: IMP

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Please do not consider the hands in my other post today.

Bidding has gone

P - (1♣) - X - (1♠)
P - (2♣) - X - (P)
2♦- (3♣) - P - (P)

Do you bid 3♦ here? If not 3♥?

Both doubles are for take out

[helene_t]

3♦, yes. Both parties seem to have a 9-card fit. If I had bid 2♥ in the previous round I could have shown both my suits, but bidding diamonds twice is ok, too. We might mis 4♥ this way but it's not very likely and 3♦ rates to be safer than 3♥.

[jtfanclub]

I'll bid 3♥. If partner didn't have 4 hearts, he'd have 4 diamonds, and he should be willing to risk a 3 diamond bid then.

[SoTired]

If you had bid 2H instead of 2D the first time, your 2nd bid of 3D would be perfect.

When weak, bid a 4-card major in advance of an takeout dbl before a 5-card minor.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 2H direct over 1S is better, afterall
the t/o double focuses on the mayors
and a delayed 2H instead of the 3D
would also be better, because now I could
bid 3D
#2 having bid the way I did, I either pass
or bid 3D, ... 3H is tempting, but if I
catch partner with a 3 carder, it wont
be fun, most likely I pass

With kind reagrds
Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 23 2007, 09:50 AM, said:

#2 having bid the way I did, I either pass
or bid 3D, ... 3H is tempting, but if I
catch partner with a 3 carder, it wont
be fun, most likely I pass

Maybe the issue is what you would bid with:

432
432
5432
432

I would bid 2♥ with that, not 2♦.

Partner should expect me to have 5 diamonds for my 2♦ call. With a 9 card diamond fit, biding 3♦ over 3♣ should be just about automatic, unless he has a penalty X. Therefore, when he passes, I expect he does not have 4 diamonds. Which means he must have 4 hearts.

Another issue is how weak you are. You have a guaranteed fit in one of the red suits, either an 8 card heart fit or a 9 card diamond fit. Combined with the fit, you have spade shortness, which works wonders with partner's presumed club shortness. Across a hand powerful enough to double twice, this is not a weak hand...not so strong that I'd bid 3♣ over the second X, but very close*. If partner has to correct to 4♦, I expect us to make. It would not suprise me if partner bid 5♦ or 4♥ over 3♥, and I would expect to make those as well. This hand is a full three support tricks stronger than what I could have on the bidding so far. It's time to show that strength.

*considering the junk I would bid with over the 1♠ call, it might actually be strong enough for 3♣. But I don't think that's standard.

[gwnn]

with 5m4M it's much better to bid the major first, then the minor. But 2♦ then 3♦ is OK also.

edit: i mean 2♥ in 2♦'s place, not first round. first round 2♥ or 2♦ strikes me as loony bidding.

[neilkaz]

Maybe I am too wimpy, but being vulnerable at IMPs and allready having been 2♦ (OK I was forced to bid and could have chosen 2♥) I will pass now and go quietly into the night although I suspect we may be missing a black suit cross ruff so I certainly think this hand is close to a bid.

.. neilkaz ..

[vuroth]

Is partner's second double purely takeout (showing, I guess, 3 spades?)? I would have thought that this shape would have been guessable after 1♣ X 1♠.

My guess would have been that the second double showed strength....

V

[skjaeran]

jtfanclub, on Jul 23 2007, 05:26 PM, said:

Maybe the issue is what you would bid with:

432
432
5432
432

I would bid 2♥ with that, not 2♦.

With this horrible hand I'd try to find the bid that will give us the best chance of not getting partner overentusiastic, and that's obviously 2♦. It's much harder to make 5♦ than 4♥, so 2♦ is the bid that gives us the best chance to stop comfortably low.

[jtfanclub]

Jlall, on Jul 23 2007, 11:29 AM, said:

Your posts honestly shock me.

Yeah, I kinda got that.

So, what is the minimum hand you would reopen with in this auction?

P - (1♣) - X - (1♠)
P - (2♣) - P - P

[DWM]

vuroth, on Jul 23 2007, 12:13 PM, said:

Is partner's second double purely takeout (showing, I guess, 3 spades?)? I would have thought that this shape would have been guessable after 1♣ X 1♠.

My guess would have been that the second double showed strength....

V

The second double shows 16+ support points.

He could have somthing along the lines of

4-4-4-1
4-3-5-1
3-4-4-2
3-4-5-1

Doubt he has something like

4-5-3-1

As he would have enough points to bid hearts first then reverse into spades.

[ralph23]

jtfanclub, on Jul 23 2007, 02:45 PM, said:

So, what is the minimum hand you would reopen with in this auction?

P - (1♣) - X - (1♠)
P - (2♣) - P - P

OK, I didn't even have the 6pts I need to bid over 1♠. So I passed.

The only thing I can imagine reopening on is a weak distributional red hand. I didn't bid the first time because I didn't want partner to get excited, because I don't have any values in high cards.