[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

Scoring: XIMP

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North opens 1♦ and your partner passes. South bids 1NT and North jumps to 3NT.

You lead your 4th best ♠, the 7. Partner plays the King and declarer takes the Ace.

Declarer leads the Jack of ♦ from his hand and you must find a discard. What do you play and why ?

Hint: Who has the Queen of ♠? And who at the table knows this (and doesn't know it)?

Adv & exp pls hide your answers. Hands to follow.

[jocdelevat]

I discard 6 heart. I do not know who has the q spade as I usualy follow the rule third hand play big second hand small so ks can be from kq but also from kxx.

[cherdano]

jocdelevat, on Jul 19 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

I discard 6 heart. I do not know who has the q spade as I usualy follow the rule third hand play big second hand small so ks can be from kq but also from kxx.

When you play one of touching honors in 3rd hand, you always play the lowest. (Yes there are exceptions but they are really really special.)

[ralph23]

cherdano, on Jul 19 2007, 07:36 PM, said:

jocdelevat, on Jul 19 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

I discard 6 heart. I do not know who has the q spade as I usualy follow the rule third hand play big second hand small so ks can be from kq but also from kxx.

When you play one of touching honors in 3rd hand, you always play the lowest. (Yes there are exceptions but they are really really special.)

OK so now we know that if partner had the Queen of ♠, he would have played it at trick one. So declarer has that card.

Think of it this way (two ways actually ):

1) You've just seen declarer lead the Jack of ♦. If he has the Queen of ♦ also, you know it's hopeless. He will take in that case at least 2♠, 2♣ and 7♦. So make the assumption that partner has that card.

2) If declarer DID have the Queen of ♦, would he play this way? You know, once he gets on that board, he's never getting off of it. Wouldn't he cash the good Queen of ♠ first, then go to the board ? After all, if he has QJx in diamonds, then he has 9 points in the pointed suits. He can't even have the Queen of ♣ in this case, as that would give him 11 and too much to bid just 1NT over partner's opening bid.

So partner must have the diamond queen. And he's going to win this trick. Can you help him out ?

[DWM]

Declarer has the Queen, or P will have a sore nose.

All but P knows this, or at least the first bit.

I would signal a Heart by playing 2♣. There are 8 tricks for NS in the minors on table and they have already have one trick in the majors. Therefore, it is time to get busy and grab as many heart tricks as possible before they get discarded on those diamonds.

[ralph23]

DWM, on Jul 20 2007, 07:17 AM, said:

Declarer has the Queen, or P will have a sore nose.

All but P knows this, or at least the first bit.

I would signal a Heart by playing 2♣. There are 8 tricks for NS in the minors on table and they have already have one trick in the majors. Therefore, it is time to get busy and grab as many heart tricks as possible before they get discarded on those diamonds.

♣♦♥♠

You are right to try to get a ♥ lead from partner, but wrong in how you are going about it. Playing standard signals, the 2 of ♣ simply says "Don't lead a ♣" --- but partner already knew that; he can see the board too.

What is partner likely to lead when he gets the lead with the ♦ Queen ? In fact, it's almost a certainty that he will lead it. How do you stop him from making this terrible mistake (a mistake which will be YOUR fault)?

[bid_em_up]

ralph23, on Jul 20 2007, 09:58 AM, said:

DWM, on Jul 20 2007, 07:17 AM, said:

Declarer has the Queen, or P will have a sore nose.

All but P knows this, or at least the first bit.

I would signal a Heart by playing 2♣.  There are 8 tricks for NS in the minors on table and they have already have one trick in the majors.  Therefore, it is time to get busy and grab as many heart tricks as possible before they get discarded on those diamonds.

♣♦♥♠

You are right to try to get a ♥ lead from partner, but wrong in how you are going about it. Playing standard signals, the 2 of ♣ simply says "Don't lead a ♣" --- but partner already knew that; he can see the board too.

What is partner likely to lead when he gets the lead with the ♦ Queen ? In fact, it's almost a certainty that he will lead it. How do you stop him from making this terrible mistake (a mistake which will be YOUR fault)?

Spoiler

The simplest solution is to discard a small (discouraging) spade. You shouldn't be discarding from a suit that you actually want returned, and it is impossible you want a club.

The "best" solution is to discard the spade jack. This "should" work, but an inexperienced partner may incorrectly interpret that as demanding a spade. For anyone else, the spade J will work, as you are throwing your highest spade, so now partner knows you do not have the Q and should switch.

The best method vs. NT (imo) is lavinthal discards, where you can discard either the club 2 asking for a heart, or the spade 9 asking for a heart. You do not discard from a suit you want returned so the spade 9 must ask for a heart, not a spade.

[goobers]

Haven't read any of the replies because I don't wanna be influenced.

Partner must have the DQ to beat this. In addition, we must cash our tricks IMMEDIATELY, or declarer will come home with his contract.

Clubs and diamonds are obviously hopeless, and spades are obviously hopeless to us, but partner doesn't know it! Discard your SJ (or any spade, but why make life hard for partner?)

We are playing partner for Kx or Jxx in hearts.

[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

Scoring: IMP

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Goobers did well.

You may not approve of South's failure to bid 1♥ holding 4 of them to the seven. However, players do sometimes fail to bid these awful suits and occasionally it works out for them.

West should discard the Jack of ♠, which in just about any signalling system denies the Queen. If West were trying to make an honor signal trying to encourage the suit, West would signal with the highest he could afford. Holding the QJ, if he wanted to encourage with an honor signal, he would play the Queen, not the Jack. So East should deduce that this is not an honor signal of encouragement, but rather a message saying that "Declarer has the Queen!"

Of course, any ♠ discard by West should discourage East from continuing that suit (why would partner discard a good ♠, of any rank?), but as was stated, why not be emphatic ? Hopefully your partner knows about honor signals and will get the message.

If he doesn't get the message of the Jack of ♠-- then probably nothing is going to work for you on this hand. Certainly not the 2 of ♣, which such a dufus partner will just read as a negative for ♣ (if he doesn't get honor signals, he's certainly not going to get fancy methods like odd/even or the like).

If he does get the message, then he must lead the KING of ♥ when he gets in with his ♦.

Incidentally, if South plays the Ace over the Jack of ♦ and then cashes the King and leads another diamond from the board to force out the Queen, West should continue to throw away his ♠. Even a dolt partner may be able to work it out now.

[ralph23]

cherdano, on Jul 19 2007, 07:36 PM, said:

jocdelevat, on Jul 19 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

I discard 6 heart. I do not know who has the q spade as I usualy follow the rule third hand play big second hand small so ks can be from kq but also from kxx.

When you play one of touching honors in 3rd hand, you always play the lowest. (Yes there are exceptions but they are really really special.)

Yep, the lowest of equals in third hand play. Even if they are not honors, e.g. if you have 984 as third hand and are playing high, play the 8, not the 9.

To see how this helps partner, imagine you have ♠QJ83 as third hand against 3NT.

Partner leads the 4 of ♠. Dummy plays its singleton low ♠, and you properly play the JACK. Declarer wins his Ace. He fools around in another suit and eventually partner gets the lead again.

Partner started with ♠ K9742. He knows you have the Queen, because declarer would have won trick one with the Queen (not the Ace) if declarer had her majesty. So partner leads his 2 to your Queen, and the rest is easy.

If you played the Queen on trick one (and there were no rules about which honor to play), partner would not know who had the Jack. He might think declarer had it and be afraid to lead his ♠ again, for fear of giving declarer an unearned trick with the Jack. Of course, in bridge, if you do play the Queen, you DENY the Jack, so there's no doubt in partner's mind about it now.

Hmmm.... are there exceptions ? Let's see ....

South opens 1NT showing 15-17, and North bids 2♣. After South's 2♦ bid, North bids 3NT.

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Partner leads the 4 of ♠, so you know he only has a 4-card suit. (4th best).

What's your hope to beat 3NT?

How do you play?