[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

North opens 1♦ and my partner East overcalls 1♥.
South bids 2NT and North raises to 3NT.

I decide to lead a ♥ and I have 8 6 2 of that suit.

Our normal lead from a three-card worthless suit at NT would be the 8.... but, should I lead the 8 here (in which case my partner may think I only have a doubleton in his suit ), or instead lead the 2, as I would against a suit contract (but if I do, then my partner may now think that I have a ♥ honor ).

Which would you consider standard ? I thought the 8 was correct.

[frouu]

8 must be standard.
your partner can see the honors in declarer's hand.
as you discovered, it's very hard to give two vital messages with one card.

[bid_em_up]

ralph23, on Jul 12 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

♣♦♥♠

North opens 1♦ and my partner East overcalls 1♥.
South bids 2NT and North raises to 3NT.

I decide to lead a ♥ and I have 8 6 2 of that suit.

Our normal lead from a three-card worthless suit at NT would be the 8.... but, should I lead the 8 here (in which case my partner may think I only have a doubleton in his suit ), or instead lead the 2, as I would against a suit contract (but if I do, then my partner may now think that I have a ♥ honor ).

Which would you consider standard ? I thought the 8 was correct.

I think given the scenario, the 2 is best.

Partner can look at dummy, his hand, and know from the bidding how likely it is that you have an honor (slim to none).

But it may be more helpful for partner to know your exact count, where the two will either be from 3 or a stiff. While the two would normally imply an honor, I think here it will be clear enough to partner that it is impossible for you to actually have one.

Lead the two.

[goobers]

Lead the one that is your agreement, for me that is the 8, top of nothing. If I lead small here, partner will think I have 3 to an honor (or 4)

[awm]

Elianna and my agreement here:

When leading partner's suit against notrump, if we haven't raised, then lead 3rd best or high from doubleton. The count is more important than whether we have an honor in this situation.

When leading partner's suit against notrump, if we have raised, then lead 3rd best from an honor or top of nothing. Partner knows we have 3+ so count is less essential.

[jdgalt]

By your agreement, the 8 merely tells partner that you have nothing in the suit. He shouldn't be assuming a doubleton.

Most of the time your length won't matter to partner. If I lead from three small against 3NT, it usually means one of two things: (a) the lead is partner's bid suit; ( I have no entries and thus am hoping to hit partner's suit (usually by leading my shorter unbid major). Partner knows (a), and ( will usually be obvious too.

If partner really needs to know your length very often in this situation, then the two of you should consider a different agreement such as leading Middle-Up-Down from 3 small cards.

[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

Adam, your agreement is the one we have at suit agreements. On reflection it makes sense to have it for NT defense as well ... so, agsinst NT, from 3 small in a neutral suit, top of nothing, and when leading partner's suit, follow the agreement at suit contracts (low from 3 small unless you've raised partner, then revert to top of nothing).....