[Badmonster]

Last year I asked about this. But it's been a whole year and so, I thought I'd ask again. A couple years ago, I was taught, what I thought, was a great form of drop dead stayman - where in with 4/4 or 4/5 in the majors you'd bid 2♣planning to pass any major response. If p bids 2♦ you bid 2h and he passes unless his spades are better than his hearts in which case he corrects.

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

Why?

[gwnn]

There are many many many people, even here on the forums, who play this.

Check out Don (Double !)'s thread on 1NT openers.

[mikeh]

Badmonster, on Jul 4 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Last year I asked about this. But it's been a whole year and so, I thought I'd ask again. A couple years ago, I was taught, what I thought, was a great form of drop dead stayman - where in with 4/4 or 4/5 in the majors you'd bid 2♣planning to pass any major response. If p bids 2♦ you bid 2h and he passes unless his spades are better than his hearts in which case he corrects.

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

Why?

I play it in some partnerships, not in others.... works ok, but sometimes having the sequence 1N 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ as meaning something else is better. For example, in one partnership, this sequence is part of a very precise relay structure. In others, it shows a major 2-suiter, longer spades than hearts, with invitational values. The point is that the best meaning for any sequence will usually depend upon the rest of your methods and, sometimes, the form of scoring.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

First of all, this will be played, but sometimes
it is called Garbage Stayman, there are slight
differences, ...

Second, if you use Garbage Stayman, you
loose some options, you would have, if played
inv.+ Stayman. As always it is a matter of pro
and contra.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenberg]

I play it with those who like it. My preference is not. Here is a quote from Reese: "The contract that most often makes when it shouldn't is 1NT". Of course sometimes 1N is simply hopeless, but playing 2H in a 4-3 fit is not always a walk in the park either. Depends on the cards.

Here are some sequences that I prefer:

1N-2C-2D-2S: Invitational with five spades and four hearts. How else do you show 5spades-4hearts invitational and allow an exit at 2NT?

1N-2D-2H-2S: Also 5-4 invitational (not a Stayman sequence but included to show that now both 5-4 invitational hands are covered).

1N-2C-2D-2H: five hearts, four spades, weak.

Now this leaves a hole for five spades and four hearts, weak. I transfer to spades. Obviously this can go wrong, but so can starting it with 2C, letting the opponents in easily.

Playing 4 suit transfers, the auction 1N-2C-2H-2S is needed to show four spades and invitational values.

With 4-4 in the majors and 3-2 in the minors I pass. If instead I have a stiff club I consider 2C, passing any response. I don't always do it.


There is no free lunch, but in my experience this set of agreements is a reasonable set.

Incidentally, while I don't go out of my way to open NT when 5-4 in the minors there are hands where I think it is right. When playing drop dead (aka, crawling I guess) Stayman I forego this choice.

[Gerben42]

Quote

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

I've never seen much merit in the "strong Stayman" method and do not play it with any partner. There are SOME advantages, though, but I don't like the torture of seeing partner struggle in 1NT when I have nothing.

Quote

"The contract that most often makes when it shouldn't is 1NT"

Although this is true, this is usually when points are 20-20 or so. When you have 15 opposite 2, what usually happens is that the opponents establish a suit, and declarer is squeezed out of the other 3.

[skjaeran]

Garbage Stayman is more or less standard where I play. It's not exactly the same as Badmonster plays, but similar.

[paulg]

Badmonster, on Jul 4 2007, 03:59 PM, said:

Last year I asked about this. But it's been a whole year and so, I thought I'd ask again. A couple years ago, I was taught, what I thought, was a great form of drop dead stayman - where in with 4/4 or 4/5 in the majors you'd bid 2♣planning to pass any major response. If p bids 2♦ you bid 2h and he passes unless his spades are better than his hearts in which case he corrects.

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

Why?

In my experience most of the UK just plays Stayman, but the rest of the world knows this version as Garbage Stayman.

Perhaps we are a silent majority?

[Fluffy]

I do the same as mikeh, play it with some partners, but play something more complicated with the others.

[SoTired]

I play that with most of my partners. 1N 2C 2D 2H = Garbage Stayman spades equal or better than hearts. Opener with equal or better spades bids 2S.

Responder with bust and 5♥, 4♠ just transfers to hearts.

1N 2C 2D 2S = 5♠,4♥ invitational. 1N 2D 2H 2S = 5♥,4♠, invitational.

I have heard of more complex versions for bust hands with 4M/6m (maybe 4M/5m) hands so that you can try to sign-off in 2M or 3m, but they change your entire NT response structure and give up some strong minor/major bids.

[barmar]

I play Garbage Stayman (which I've also heard called Creeping Stayman -- some people use the name Garbage Stayman to refer to the case where you plan on passing opener's response with a weak 4-3=5=1 or 4=4=5=0 hand) with one of my regular partners, but I'm not a big fan of it. The appropriate hands just don't seem to come up very often.

I prefer to use 1NT-2C-2D-2H/2S to show an invitational 4-5 hand, where the bid suit is the 4-card suit -- it's an invitational version of Smolen.

[han]

I play it too.

[foo]

Badmonster, on Jul 4 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Last year I asked about this. But it's been a whole year and so, I thought I'd ask again. A couple years ago, I was taught, what I thought, was a great form of drop dead stayman - where in with 4/4 or 4/5 in the majors you'd bid 2♣planning to pass any major response. If p bids 2♦ you bid 2h and he passes unless his spades are better than his hearts in which case he corrects.

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

Why?

I play this routinely in most partnerships.

[goobers]

I play it. I think traditionally it shows 54 majors invitational, but it's not a big deal to make it signoff.

[jtfanclub]

Badmonster, on Jul 4 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

I'd better be happy at the 3 level, because after the auction:

1NT-P-2C-3C/3D

I expect my partner to bid 3 of a major if he has a 4 card major, with pass showing preference for the other minor and X showing preference for their minor.

As long as I don't mind being at the 3 level, why not?

[Badmonster]

jtfanclub, on Jul 5 2007, 01:11 PM, said:

Badmonster, on Jul 4 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Oddly, as wonderful as I found this method, the rest of the bridge world, that would be all of you, by the way, obstinately persists in not playing this.

I'd better be happy at the 3 level, because after the auction:

1NT-P-2C-3C/3D

I expect my partner to bid 3 of a major if he has a 4 card major, with pass showing preference for the other minor and X showing preference for their minor.

As long as I don't mind being at the 3 level, why not?

I'm lost. I've never seen that auction. Can you explain further?

[jtfanclub]

Badmonster, on Jul 5 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

I'm lost. I've never seen that auction. Can you explain further?

Partner opens 1NT, in first seat.

The next player passes.

I bid 2 clubs, Stayman.

The next player bids 3 of a minor, promising a solid 6 card suit. Or she bids 2NT, for both minors.

I've had a lot of luck interfering there, when the tables are turned. It can be very difficult to determine if we should be allowed to play it, play it doubled, or they should take it in the major.

If nobody does that to you, I guess it's not an issue.

[Badmonster]

Ahh! Ok, so the 3c is not by the 1nt opener!. Sorry, feel silly now. Never mind.