[Zoe171]

Playing with regular partner, using Precision. 1D 11-15 might be 2.
How shld opener interpret double by partner in this auction?

1D - X - XX - P
P - 1H - X - P

This is matchpoint scoring. I was 1D opener with the following hand:
S Q J x
H 8 x
D A J 10 x
C K Q x x

Thx in advance for input.

[the hog]

Looks like a penalty X to me.

[EricK]

I would interpret this as a penalty double.

Eric

[luis]

Penalty double no doubts.

[inquiry]

Only two reasonable interpretations of this double.

1) Penatly - the standard interpretation, and without specific other agreement what the bid should mean, or

2) Garazzo 2/3 double if you play that convention.

What is the 2/3 doulbe? Garozzo 2/3 doubles are used in some forcing pass situations below game where our side has shown the majority of high card points. In this situation (where pass would be forcing), a direct double shows 2 or 3 cards in the suit doubled and interest in possible penalty (sort of a cooperative double). A direct pass over their bid shows 1 or 4+ in the suit you could have doubled, and cue-bids show a void in their suit. After the initial redouble, you can rest assured that the redoubler is not VOID in hearts, so this double shows 2 or 3 hearts, and a pass shows 1 or 4+. Now direct bids are over 1H (instead of double or pass) are descriptive and imply minimum values for the auction so far. After the direct double, partner can pass with length too, or can bid if short. After the direct pass, partner can double with either length or shortness (but not extreme shortness), and partner will figure out what to do - if in doubt the player with shortness does not double but bids instead.

There are several places these are really useful such as after our penalty oriented redoubles, or after we open 1NT, they overcall, and we first make a negative double, then the next double would be 2/3.

Playind precision with nebulous 1D and very limited opening hands, I like to use 2/3 double here.

Ben

[Trpltrbl]

The_Hog, on Jan 15 2004, 12:14 AM, said:

Looks like a penalty X to me.

In rubberbridge you would be thinking about buying a new car, or boat depending on stakes. In other bridge your pd thinks they are going down a whole bunch. But I always get yelled at when I forget to mention the Vulnerabilty, but since none mentioned I think it is equal. But if this is your regular pd and this seems a very common auction, maybe this should have been discussed a long time ago.

Mike

[Free]

I dont bother saying it anymore (about vulnerability), you just get the right answer from other people...

[Zoe171]

Sorry, both sides were vulnerable. Partner had
S A 10 x x
H A K 9 7
D x x
C x x x

[the hog]

I would not bid like you partner. I would have bid 1S rather than xx. Having made the error of redoubling, I would not X 1H, but bid 1N. This is NOT a 1 level penalty X, which should resemble KQT9x at the very least.

[Trpltrbl]

The_Hog, on Jan 16 2004, 04:01 PM, said:

I would not bid like you partner. I would have bid 1S rather than xx. Having made the error of redoubling, I would not X 1H, but bid 1N. This is NOT a 1 level penalty X, which should resemble KQT9x at the very least.

I would have XX, but after 1 I would bid 1 NT for sure.

Mike

[the hog]

If you xx Mike, how are you going to cope ith an escape into C?

[Trpltrbl]

The_Hog, on Jan 17 2004, 02:55 PM, said:

If you xx Mike, how are you going to cope ith an escape into C?

If I XX first and bid 1 NT after 1 pd should know I have a balanced 10-11/12 count. At least that's what I would expect, but I am not an precision player (anymore). If my pd now rebids 2 I will pass.
If my pd rebids 3 I will bid 3 if that is an asking bid for cards in or I will 3 if that is showing stopper.

Mike

P.S. Thanks for reminding me why I went back to playing natural systems
hehehe

[the hog]

You missed the point Mike

1D (X) XX (2C)
P (P) ?

Or

1D (X) XX (P)
P (2C) ?
Here X is penalties, pass is forcing, but it puts pd under pressure if he has the balanced 11-13 hand and no penalty x of Cs.

This is why I gave up playing omnibus redoubles.

[Trpltrbl]

The_Hog, on Jan 17 2004, 10:14 PM, said:

You missed the point Mike

1D (X) XX (2C)
P (P) ?

Or

1D (X) XX (P)
P (2C) ?
Here X is penalties, pass is forcing, but it puts pd under pressure if he has the balanced 11-13 hand and no penalty x of Cs.

This is why I gave up playing omnibus redoubles.

Ok, I see what you mean. And I know I will quit playing XX too, at least as point showing device, maybe I would play it as showing 4-4 in majors, and that will give pd what he needs to know to make a good decision. Again another plus point for natural systems where you actually know what suit pd has

Mike

[paulg]

Zoe171, on Jan 15 2004, 04:08 AM, said:

Playing with regular partner, using Precision.  1D  11-15 might be 2.
How shld opener interpret double by partner in this auction?

1D - X - XX - P
P  - 1H - X - P

This is matchpoint scoring.  I was 1D opener with the following hand:
S  Q  J  x
H    8  x
D  A  J  10  x
C  K  Q  x  x

Thx in advance for input.

As a comment on alternative methods, I believe Meckwell revert to transfer responses to 1♦ after a takeout double. I actually do the same but they're more relevant not least as they play PC

So redouble is a simple transfer to hearts. The benefit of transfer responses is extra space for opener to clarify his hand type, useful after the nebulous diamond.

Perhaps the most interesting point is that this means that they've given up penalising redoubles, probably because of their perceived lack of value. I see the current trend in tournament play as players attempting to find their best contract rather than penalise opponents and risk a small penalty. This is less true at the rubber bridge table where money in the pocket is valued higher.