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Bidding over a preemption A real life problem

Poll: What would you bid? (12 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you bid?

  1. Double (7 votes [58.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.33%

  2. 5C (3 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  3. 6C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 6S (1 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  5. Other (1 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

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#1 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-January-20, 10:33 

IMPs; Board 14; Love All; Dealer East
 
North
AKJT98
AQ952
-
A3
 
 
West   North  East   South
-      -      Pass   1D
4C     ?


This is from near the top of a f2f national tournament so expert opposition and, hopefully, partner - your 10 seconds has elapsed and the stop card has been removed so the clock is ticking (of course you are entitled to think in this position but if you are taking your time then it's best to form a plan at this stage)

Do you have a plan?
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I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
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#2 User is offline   helium 

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Posted 2004-January-20, 10:48

i would bid 5 NT ask p to pick a slam (major)
or 6 C but then a grand slam may be missed
foole me once, shame one you!!
foole me twice, shame on me....!!
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#3 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-January-20, 14:00

Double [10]
5C [4]
6C [3]
6S [5]
5NT [7]

Ok, What is wrong with 6SPADES? It give up not only on possible grandslam, you are laying all your eggs in the basket of SPADES as the best strain. Who nows, 6S may be down while 7H roles home.

What is wrong with 5C and 6C? Partner should assume a diamond fit with a cue-bid here.

5NT - pick a slam is a nice bid, when partner bids 6D you will "correct" to 6Hearts and he will know to pick between the majors. The assumption with this auction is that you will have a fit in one or the other of the majors. Partner without a club control will have a hard time moving towards the grand slam.

So why is nebulous double better? You have a void in partners suit and two clubs. IF partner leaves this double in, he will have likely four clubs (to go along with his diamonds), and the opponents are in a world of hurt. That is, partner will pass when you lack a major suit fit, and 4Cx at equal vulnerability will be a great spot.

Second, after the double, you can know use a forcing cue-bid. For instance, looking at your diamond void, you would not be surprised to hear partner bid 4D or even 5D over the double. Now, after the double, you can pull out the cue-bid and partner will no longer think this shows a fit. A likely auction would be...
1♦-(4♣)-DBL-(Pass);4♦-(pass)-5♣ which serves the purpose of the original 5♣ type bid (forcing and showing slam interest), but now denying ♦ fit (you could have bid 5♣ on last round.

Logic for my votes.. DBL can still get you to either major suit slam, but also gives you the option of 4Cx when it is right. 5NT gets you to "best" major suit slam, but misses 4Cx when misfit exist. 6♠ gives up on both 4♣x and 6♥, and both direct cue-bids just muddy the water as to the strain.

Ben
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#4 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-January-20, 18:28

X, Take out. Pd will have a fit in one of my majors and anything he bids I will rebid some amount of Posted Image. Pd should know what is going on then.

Mike :D
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
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#5 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-January-21, 10:06

The full hand is posted as a play problem, at

http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...?showtopic=2008

IMPs; Board 14; Love All; Dealer East

     North
     S AKJT98
     H AQ952
     D -
     C A3

West        East
S xxx       S xxx
H x         H KJTx
D x         D Axxxx
C QJTxxxxx  C x

     South
     S Q
     H 743
     D KQJT654
     C K5

West   North  East   South
-      -      Pass   1D
4C     ?


I actually bid 6S at the table. I largely agree with Ben's analysis but I'll share my table thoughts ...
  • I was concerned about partner passing 4C-X with an essentially balanced hand, when we might only get +500 for a slam
  • I didn't like 5C as this shows diamond support in our style
  • My spades were so good that there are not many hands when hearts would be a better strain at the 6-level even if that was the better fit
  • I was prepared to give up on the grand slam as it just looked too difficult to bid confidently

In retrospect I think DOUBLE is probably a better bid and the only way to get to any grand slam that is making but with the risk of a potential small penalty when small slams are the limit.

Looking at the full hand it's not clear that you want to be in slam at all ... so perhaps, horror of horrors, we should start another 1D or 3D discussion :-)

At the other table the auction went 3D-(5C)-Dbl-All pass and teammates lost -800.
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#6 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-January-24, 18:26

cardsharp, on Jan 21 2004, 11:06 AM, said:

The full hand is posted as a play problem, at

http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...?showtopic=2008

IMPs; Board 14; Love All; Dealer East

     North
     S AKJT98
     H AQ952
     D -
     C A3

West        East
S xxx       S xxx
H x         H KJTx
D x         D Axxxx
C QJTxxxxx  C x

     South
     S Q
     H 743
     D KQJT654
     C K5

West   North  East   South
-      -      Pass   1D
4C     ?


I actually bid 6S at the table. I largely agree with Ben's analysis but I'll share my table thoughts ...
  • I was concerned about partner passing 4C-X with an essentially balanced hand, when we might only get +500 for a slam
  • I didn't like 5C as this shows diamond support in our style
  • My spades were so good that there are not many hands when hearts would be a better strain at the 6-level even if that was the better fit
  • I was prepared to give up on the grand slam as it just looked too difficult to bid confidently
In retrospect I think DOUBLE is probably a better bid and the only way to get to any grand slam that is making but with the risk of a potential small penalty when small slams are the limit.

Looking at the full hand it's not clear that you want to be in slam at all ... so perhaps, horror of horrors, we should start another 1D or 3D discussion :-)

At the other table the auction went 3D-(5C)-Dbl-All pass and teammates lost -800.

This is not that hard of a declarer problem. I assuming we get to 6Posted Image and losing only Posted Image Ace.

Mike :ph34r:
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
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#7 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-January-24, 18:31

And then again maybe I should think before I post :ph34r: Of course my expert opps will Duck the Ace of Posted Image and next Posted Image I play will be ruffed by West leaving me without enough entrees to dummy to make the hand.

Mike :D
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
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#8 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-January-24, 20:14

Trpltrbl, on Jan 24 2004, 07:31 PM, said:

And then again maybe I should think before I post :) Of course my expert opps will Duck the Ace of Posted Image and next Posted Image I play will be ruffed by West leaving me without enough entrees to dummy to make the hand.

Actually, they will duck and you will still make... maybe... see
http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...?showtopic=2008
--Ben--

#9 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-January-24, 22:16

Dbl, you never know partner has a 4 card Major!!! :)
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