[TylerE]

---

Team game, bd 1 with a new partner playing 2/1.

Auction starts 1♦ - 1♠ - 1NT.

Your plan?

[DrTodd13]

Did my pd open 1♦ and respond 1N or did LHO open 1♦ and RHO bid 1N?

If it is the latter then my RHO is crazy and I'm going to bid 5♦, exclusion blackwood.

If my pd has just bid 1NT then I will bid 3♥, game forcing with 5+♥.
If pd retreats to 3N then I bid 5♠. Pd should get the 6♠, 5♥ picture and bid 6 of a major with any reasonably fitting hand. If partner support hearts then I'll just start cue-bidding.

[kenrexford]

DrTodd13, on Jun 15 2007, 10:04 PM, said:

Did my pd open 1♦ and respond 1N or did LHO open 1♦ and RHO bid 1N?

If it is the latter then my RHO is crazy and I'm going to bid 5♦, exclusion blackwood.

If my pd has just bid 1NT then I will bid 3♥, game forcing with 5+♥.
If pd retreats to 3N then I bid 5♠. Pd should get the 6♠, 5♥ picture and bid 6 of a major with any reasonably fitting hand. If partner support hearts then I'll just start cue-bidding.

That works.

[gwnn]

DrTodd13, on Jun 16 2007, 05:04 AM, said:

Did my pd open 1♦ and respond 1N or did LHO open 1♦ and RHO bid 1N?

If it is the latter then my RHO is crazy and I'm going to bid 5♦, exclusion blackwood.

If my pd has just bid 1NT then I will bid 3♥, game forcing with 5+♥.
If pd retreats to 3N then I bid 5♠. Pd should get the 6♠, 5♥ picture and bid 6 of a major with any reasonably fitting hand. If partner support hearts then I'll just start cue-bidding.

And pass with an unfitting hand? I don't think he may do that.

[whereagles]

Since I don't seem to have a way to show this hand at a reasonable level, I'll just play the odds and bid 6♥.

[bid_em_up]

Nobody plays NMF anymore, followed by some # of hearts?

[Fluffy]

showing hearts creates problems to show diamond void later.

but it might be good to ruff a spade in dummy if partner has 2.

My bid is 3♥.

[TylerE]

Actual auction proceeded (opps passing throughout)

1D - 1S - 1NT - 2C (NMF) - 3NT (Confusing me quite a bit) - 6H - 6S

Turned out parter has

♠ Qx
♥ AJx
♦ Axxx
♣ KQxx

Obiously 7H, 7S, and 7N are all easy makes...even 7C is probably makeable. Don't know why p didn't just open 1NT, which makes bidding the grand a lot simpler. The actual result is somewhat immaterial though.

(Oh, and the real irony is that the result of this board was win 10 for us...when the other pair had a miscue and passed out 4NT)

[DrTodd13]

bid_em_up, on Jun 16 2007, 04:33 AM, said:

Nobody plays NMF anymore, followed by some # of hearts?

NMF denies this hand. Look at Root and Pavlicek's discussion of NMF in Modern Bridge Conventions. The sequence you suggest is strictly invitational and not game forcing since you have this 3♥ bid available and didn't use it.

I knew when this problem was posted that the lamentation was over whether or not to bid 7. Why isn't partner opening 1N with his hand? For hands like this, your NT range is important since it shows what the 1N rebid is. I'm not too worried about missing 7 with a 12-14 pd. 6 is usually enough as you found. I think if partner supports ♥ as he does here you have nice cue-bidding or RKC sequences to find 7.

[jdonn]

Even with the actual auction partner should raise. What in blazes can you have that won't make 7♥?

[bid_em_up]

DrTodd13, on Jun 16 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Jun 16 2007, 04:33 AM, said:

Nobody plays NMF anymore, followed by some # of hearts?

NMF denies this hand. Look at Root and Pavlicek's discussion of NMF in Modern Bridge Conventions. The sequence you suggest is strictly invitational and not game forcing since you have this 3♥ bid available and didn't use it.

I guess this depends on whether you consider NMF as forcing 1 round, or g/f. I much prefer g/f.

[awm]

Basically there are three versions of NMF (ignoring things like two-way or transfer checkback):

(1) After the NMF bid, opener rebids two of responder's major with 3-card support or the other major with four cards there. These bids are not specific about strength and are generally forcing one round. Only the 2NT rebid by opener confirms a minimum and is NF.

(2) After the NMF bid, opener is supposed to bid the full value of his hand. This means jumping to three of responder's major on a maximum with three-card support. Bidding two of responder's major confirms a minimum and is NF. Responder's jump rebids (1X-1Y-1NT-3X and 1X-1Y-1NT-3Y) are invitational, with game forcing hands going through NMF.

(3) After the NMF bid, opener is supposed to bid the full value of his hand. This means jumping to three of responder's major on a maximum with three-card support. Bidding two of respodner's major confirms a minimum and is NF. Responder's jump rebids (1X-1Y-1NT-3X and 1X-1Y-1NT-3Y) are game forcing; NMF handles all invitational hands except those which bid 2NT at second turn, and also handles game forcing balanced hands with a 5cM.

As far as I can tell, method two is the standard. This is curious because this also appears to be the least playable method, with opener jumping to the three level getting in the way of responder's attempt to show a game forcing raise of opener's minor. The Root/Pavlicek version is (3), which seems better than (2) but is also pretty non-mainstream as best I can tell.

NMF is one convention I really don't bother to teach or play, since it seems as though two-way is both simpler to explain and more effective.

[DrTodd13]

It is probably closer to the following:

P1 - Let's play NMF.
P2 - I don't know it...how does it work?
P1 - If I bid a new minor over 1N rebid, you bid 2M if you have 3 card support.
P2 - Ok...got it.

[table dissolves and new one begins 5 minutes later]

P2 - Hi pd...let's play NMF.


Disaster and argument ensues as more examples unfold of people who know about 1/10th of a convention but think they know it all.

[neilkaz]

DrTodd13, on Jun 16 2007, 11:25 AM, said:

It is probably closer to the following:

P1 - Let's play NMF.
P2 - I don't know it...how does it work?
P1 - If I bid a new minor over 1N rebid, you bid 2M if you have 3 card support.
P2 - Ok...got it.

[table dissolves and new one begins 5 minutes later]

P2 - Hi pd...let's play NMF.


Disaster and argument ensues as more examples unfold of people who know about 1/10th of a convention but think they know it all.

No kidding re: NMF. Why isn't the simpler 2-way checkback more standard ?

Anyhow..I make the GF jump shift rebid of 3♥ here.

[kenrexford]

bid_em_up, on Jun 16 2007, 07:33 AM, said:

Nobody plays NMF anymore, followed by some # of hearts?

People who play NMF sometimes also play that a jump shows 5-5 GF.

[kenrexford]

So many strange things.

You are playing 2/1 GF, and partner opens 1♦ with 16 HCP's and balanced... What the Heck is your 1NT range?

So, assuming undisclosed K-S, you then bid NMF, and partner bids 3NT. Fair enough, I suppose -- apparently your NMF is one-round forcing.

This is so much better with a 5-5 3♥. Of course, not so much if you have no techniques to deal with this problem -- what to do with heart support.

Two poss. One is to flag (4♣=♥, 4♦=♠, but this seems unnecessary, as you can simply bid 3♠ with spades.

This suggests alternative #2 -- Opener cues with hearts and extra's. Apparently, this is extra's (still not sure of the NT range). So, 4♣ looks right -- heart support and a club control, extras.

That fits your AJ well, so two new options.

Traditional seems to be 4NT, 5♥ (two without), 5♠ (asking), grand found.

Or, using my preference, 4♠ instead of 4NT as "RKCB," but with the spade King and spade Queen being key cards for answering purposes instead of the heart King and Queen (which are already known). Again, grand found.