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Is this forcing?

#1 User is offline   plaur 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 11:04

1♣ - 1♥
3♣ - 3♥
Is 3♥ forcing in SA(YC) or 2/1 ?
Does playing wjs make a difference?
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 11:05

1: Yes 100%
2: Not to me.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#3 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 11:13

jdonn, on Jun 15 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

1: Yes 100%
2: Not to me.

agree
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#4 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 11:49

Baaa
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#5 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 15:04

mikeh, on Jun 15 2007, 07:13 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 15 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

1: Yes 100%
2: Not to me.

agree

Me too.
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Harald
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 15:08

yada yada...
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#7 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 15:09

If you bid again, you are committed to at least 4♣, so yes, 3♥ is forcing.

Roland
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#8 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 19:13

What would you have bid though if you held 7 hearts to the ace ten,no other honours, and a void in clubs? Would you have bid 4♥ to shut partner up? (is 3♣ forcing to game?)
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#9 User is offline   uday 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 21:45

3C is not forcing to game, but it doesn't make sense, after opener announces a good hand and a good suit, to try and stop on a dime in 3 of responders suit.

I'm sure we could come up with hands where we'd like to, but it isn't playable to use 3 of responders suit as NF. There isn't much room left, and responder needs to use new bids to investigate strain/level ; it seems unreasonable to use one of the few bids below 3N to try to improve the partial.

I'm (not really) guessing that 100% of experts would play 3 of responders suit as forcing in a SA or 2/1 context.
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#10 User is offline   foo 

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Posted 2007-June-15, 23:19

add me to the herd.

100% forcing, and what to WJS have to do with it?
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#11 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-June-16, 01:36

Quantumcat, on Jun 16 2007, 03:13 AM, said:

What would you have bid though if you held 7 hearts to the ace ten,no other honours, and a void in clubs? Would you have bid 4♥ to shut partner up? (is 3♣ forcing to game?)

I'd probably make whatever weak jump shows that hand immediately. 2♥, 3♥ or 4♥.
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#12 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-June-16, 02:31

#1 yes
#2 not with regards to the forcing nature
of the bid

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#13 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-June-16, 02:32

Quantumcat, on Jun 15 2007, 08:13 PM, said:

What would you have bid though if you held 7 hearts to the ace ten,no other honours, and a void in clubs? Would you have bid 4♥ to shut partner up? (is 3♣ forcing to game?)

Hi,

depends, but one option would be 1H
followed by 4H, after 3C, bid 4H.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2007-June-16, 03:15

Yeah marlowe, that's what I meant. Having 3♣ not be forcing to game would make some hands difficult wouldn't it? What if your club suit is crappy but you don't have another way to express your hand? If 3♥ if forcing, he has to pass and you play a 6-0 fit with the suit being say KT9, with 20 pts between you, at the three level, when you have a pretty 9 card heart fit available!

If 3♥ is forcing, what does 4♥ mean? And what would 3♦ mean by the person who said 1♥? Can it be weak with 5-5, choose a partscore please, or is it forcing (I guess it has to be forcing, being a new suit).

Are there any conventions/treatments that mean you don't have to rebid 3♣? It seems to make life difficult for a very weak responder!
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#15 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2007-June-16, 03:21

Quantumcat, on Jun 16 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

Are there any conventions/treatments that mean you don't have to rebid 3♣? It seems to make life difficult for a very weak responder!

Life is not difficult for a very weak responder. Since 3♣ is non-forcing, he just displays one of his several pass cards.

Roland
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