[FrancesHinden]

Two different but thematically linked auctions. What do you think partner, who has opened 1NT, has for his bidding? If you aren't at all certain, what are the possibilities and which would you go for if you had to choose?

1a.
1NT (1) x (2) 2C (3) P
2H (4)

(1) 12-14
(2) penalties
(3) transfer to diamonds
(4) undiscussed


2.
1NT(1) x (2) P(3) P
2C

(1) 15-17
(2) penalites
(3) forces redouble, either to play in 1NTxx or the start of a 2-suited rescue manoevre

1b.
You decide to pass 2H on the grounds you don't know what it means.
The auction continues

1NT x 2C P
2H P P x(1)
P P ?

(1) penalties

Now what do you think partner has?

Your hand is
xxx
x
K10xxx
KJxx

What do you bid?

[gwnn]

1a. should be either
-6♥'s (322) "judgement opener"
-"superaccept" with 4-4 (or 4-5 of course) in the reds (although I admit this sounds very esoteric)

2. should be an approx 13-count with 6 or 7 clubs "judgement opener"

1b. has to be the first alternative. with the second alternative, partner really really ought to bid 3♦ to make his little "superacceptance" intelligible. passing sounds mandatory.

[vang]

1a. 5 hearts and 4 diamonds (2-5-4-2). i see no pther reason for not transfering.
2. part has psyched and has long clubs, not 1nt opener.
1b. same stuff. run to 3d of course

[P_Marlowe]

#0 Do you regular open offshape NT?
#0 Do you psych regular?
#0 For all partner knows, I may be broke.

#1a) he breaks the transfer, he knows I have
diamonds, and I may be short in hearts,
no way he is looking at a 6 card heart suit,
he should have diamonds
=> 3D, worst case: I teach partner a lesson
#1b) I am still clueless, quite likely partner assumes
pass showed tolerance for hearts
=> 3D, worst case: ...

#2) Partner has long clubs, if you make psych bids,
than thats the explanation, because he does not
want to play 1NTxx, because there is no reason
to run, if he had his bid

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hrothgar]

I've already seen some discussion about these hands on another board, so I'm going hold back a number of my comments until other folks have a chance to speak. I will note the following:

1. When I initially saw this auction presented, 1NT was opened in 3rd seat

2. Regarding the use of 2♣ as a transfer to Diamonds... It would be useful to understand whether the bid is really a transfer that promises a Diamond suit or, alternatively, whether its a puppet that forces partner to bid 2♦ but might not promise a Diamond holding

[SoTired]

1b - no clue, but I am not passing 2HX with a singleton heart. If my hand has 5♦ and 4♣ 3C now.
2 - partner psyched 1N with a long club suit. I pass this.

[jtfanclub]

FrancesHinden, on May 18 2007, 07:16 AM, said:

2.
1NT(1) x (2) P(3) P
2C

(1) 15-17
(2) penalites
(3) forces redouble, either to play in 1NTxx or the start of a 2-suited rescue manoevre

People don't pull this to 2♣ with 5? Interesting. I always have.

The theory is that partner is starting a 4-4 two suited rescue most of the time, and if I don't bid 2♣ we'll miss a 5-3 club fit to play in some 4-3 fit. Sure, I miss out when partner was hoping to leave in an XX for business AND the opponents run to something Xable (or leave it in), but that doesn't happen much.

But then, I play a 12-15NT. I've never seen a 1NT-X-P as forcing, so maybe the rules are different.

[inquiry]

With a disciplined partner who knows what he is suppose to bid on these auctions, I would take both as 1NT opening bid psyches. The first with long hearts, the second with long clubs.

[whereagles]

1a.
1NT (1) x (2) 2C (3) P
2H (4)

(1) 12-14
(2) penalties
(3) transfer to diamonds
(4) undiscussed

>>> 3523 shape


2.
1NT(1) x (2) P(3) P
2C

(1) 15-17
(2) penalites
(3) forces redouble, either to play in 1NTxx or the start of a 2-suited rescue manoevre

>>> easy: 5 or 6 clubs


1b.
You decide to pass 2H on the grounds you don't know what it means.
The auction continues

1NT x 2C P
2H P P x(1)
P P ?

(1) penalties

Now what do you think partner has?

>>> same as before. If he had diams for any chance, he'd have pull it back into 3♦.


Your hand is
xxx
x
K10xxx
KJxx

What do you bid?

>>> a confident-looking 3♣, though not confident on the outcome

>>> All this assumes pard isn't a joker............

[SoTired]

inquiry, on May 18 2007, 09:00 AM, said:

With a disciplined partner who knows what he is suppose to bid on these auctions, I would take both as 1NT opening bid psyches. The first with long hearts, the second with long clubs.

Partner psyched a weak NT? GAG!

On #1, there is another possibility: Opener forgot our agreement that 2C over a penalty dbl is diam transfer

[vang]

SoTired, on May 18 2007, 04:08 PM, said:

Partner psyched a weak NT? GAG!

why not? Zia does that sometimes.

[mikeh]

my 'rule' for these situations is that partner knows more about what is going on than I do, so, if his bids could be intended as natural, that's what they are.

Hence on 1, he's playing 2♥.... he has 5=2 in the reds or 6=2... maybe he felt it would be a good idea to open 1N on Jxxxxx in ♥s and values outside. If so, he (and me, along with him) has lost that gamble. But, I am not looking to play a 5-2 or 4-3 fit at the 3 level. If I were going to run, whether I bid 3♣ or 2N would depend on whether I could have shown a pronounced minor 2-suiter earlier: If I have denied 5-5 or better in the minors, I can bid 3♣. If I haven't, then I could bid 2N to suggest clubs but to ensure that I got a preference to ♦ when right. But I wouldn't pull.

As for (2), I take him for 5+♣s, probably with a weak doubleton in a side suit. Again, he is playing it. And he may well be on a 14 count, upgraded due to the suit length, but not enough to risk the redouble.

[pclayton]

The 1st would appear to be a semi-psyche; probably a balanced 11 count with 6 hearts. I'd trust pard and sit if it was doubled. "Normal" 5332's accept the transfer. The reason I don't think this is a blatant psyche is generally those hands accept the transfer to muddy the waters for the bad guy.

The 2nd sure looks like a psyche to me, but that should also be evident to the opponents. If it happened before, I think I'd be required to alert.

[whereagles]

Jlall, on May 18 2007, 04:41 PM, said:

The first is very curious, I can't think of any non psyche I would bid this way. Even with 5-2 or 6-2, opposite a 1 suiter why wouldn't partner just bid 2D? He could always judge to run if doubled viciously. This auction doesn't make sense to me except if there was a psyche.

Actually, you're right. For this sort of bidding, pard should ideally have THREE diamonds.

But in real life he all know he'll have that 3523...

[Codo]

1. I agree with Richard that this deoends on your agreement about 2 Clubs. If this shows any kind of one suiter, I would play pd for 4+ Dimaonds but short Hearts, showing me that he is willing to compete till 3 Diamonds if my suit is Diamond but just to 2 HEart else.
1 b. In that case, I better run to 3 Diamond now.

But he has to have a good diamond fit anyway. If he had psyched his 1 NT bid, he could pass 2 Club or bid 2 Diamond and run to 2 HEart after the double. So I still had bid 3 Diamond after the double.

2. If I agree, that I am forced to XX with a 12-14 NT, I should do it now with any hand that fits that explanation. So pd has no 12-14 NT and had psyched 1 NT with a long Club suit. I let him play there.

For me it is much better to play this as an offer to play 2 club with a 5 card suit, but this is not part of the system, so this is not the choice.

[helene_t]

The first is probably some kind of super-accept. I bid 3♦ now. Even if it's not a super-accept, 3♦ can't be that bad. I like off-shape 1NT openings but a 3613 goes too far.

The second is a 6-card clubs.

[gwnn]

Please tell us Frances...

[Fluffy]

First one if playing strong NT it would be 5♥+3/4♦ and a very good hand,.

With weak NT I have no clue, my partner would never psyche, nor he would escape 2♦ before it was doubled, 2♥ must be a good suit and I would stay there even after double.


But if it is a pickup partnership I'll think he has just forgotten and answered stayman.

--

The other is simple a hand with clubs, but a hand that doesn't wanna play 1NT xx, hence the suit is bad.

[FrancesHinden]

gwnn, on May 21 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

Please tell us Frances...

The full story of the first hand is here:
IBLF forum thread

In summary, partner had not noticed the double and announced the 2♣ bid as Stayman (after 1NT P 2C as Stayman is announced in England).

There was a lot of debate about what the possible LAs were, and in particular whether 2Hx - lots was a possible result.

I'm delighted to say that the result of my poll is totally inconclusive.