BBO Discussion Forums: Another interesting ending - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Another interesting ending

#1 User is offline   nickf 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 774
  • Joined: 2003-June-07
  • Location:Chatswood, Sydney

Posted 2007-May-15, 16:08

Scoring: IMP


From the Swiss qualifying of the recently completed Autumn National Open Teams in Adelaide.

The contract was 4Cx and south is on lead. He cashes the HA, north shedding a diamond and dummy, East, is squeezed.

If dummy throws a spade South plays Ace another. If he throws a diamond South underleads his Ace to North's hand, which is high.

Has this position a name?

nickf
sydney
.

#2 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2007-May-15, 16:24

stepping stone sqz?

edit: saw the hand wrong lol dont mind me...
0

#3 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2007-May-15, 16:27

This is an entry-shifting squeeze. Usually these show up at trumps where on the last round of trumps you have the opportunity to win in either hand, and depending upon what the opponents throw away, you can setup a winner.

Here is a way, you don't need a squeeze, since you have 3 top winners. (AKA), but a blocked entry conditions exist such that you can not take them all. So you need the squeeze to manage to get them. These are rare because usually you can manage to cash your winners in the correct order. Would be great to see the full hand. :P

So this is an unbalanced no-trump entry shifting squeeze.
--Ben--

#4 User is online   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,617
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2007-May-15, 16:49

I don't think this is considered an entry-shifting squeeze.

The way I understand it, in an entry-shifting squeeze the "entry-shifting" takes place in the same trick as when the squeeze card is played (typically by the 3rd hand to play to the trick, but I have seen hands in which a defender's lead results in his partner falling victim to an entry-shifting squeeze and in this case the entry-shift will occur when the 4th hand plays to the trick).

Nick's squeeze is closely related to a "jettison squeeze". For example:



In both positions declarer has enough top tricks to win the rest, but the spade blockage prevents him from doing that. The squeeze allows declarer to overcome the blockage.

The jettison squeeze is positional while the ending the Nick describes is not.

As far as I know Nick's position does not have a name, but I have seen this before both at the table and in the literature.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

#5 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2007-May-15, 16:53

fred, on May 15 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

As far as I know Nick's position does not have a name, but I have seen this before both at the table and in the literature.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

In Master Play, Reese considers this a type of steppingstone squeeze. I learned this because I pulled it off once (!) and was telling a friend about it (Joon) and he pointed me to the passage. The book gives an example of this exact squeeze in the section on steppingstones.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#6 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:00

That chapter of Reese's book is something else. I find non-canonical squeezes pretty neat :)

I pulled off a winkle a few YEARS ago.. lol.
0

#7 User is online   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,617
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:02

jdonn, on May 15 2007, 10:53 PM, said:

fred, on May 15 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

As far as I know Nick's position does not have a name, but I have seen this before both at the table and in the literature.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

In Master Play, Reese considers this a type of steppingstone squeeze. I learned this because I pulled it off once (!) and was telling a friend about it (Joon) and he pointed me to the passage. The book gives an example of this exact squeeze in the section on steppingstones.

I think you are wrong about that.

A steppingstone squeeze is effectively a 2-loser squeeze in which declarer loses a trick after the squeeze card is played. For example:



I say "effectively" because really declarer has only 1 loser if you count top tricks, but as in the other positions the blockage in spades makes it impossible for declarer to cash his top tricks without the help of a squeeze.

Both Nick's squeeze and the jettison squeeze are effectively 1-loser squeezes.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

#8 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:09

I am quite right about what he wrote, though he may well be wrong. I know your point since I made the same argument with Joon (I didn't believe him that Reese called this a steppingstone) but I found my copy of the book and he certainly did. What you show is what people classically think of as a steppingstone squeeze of course.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#9 User is online   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,617
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:22

jdonn, on May 15 2007, 11:09 PM, said:

I am quite right about what he wrote, though he may well be wrong. I know your point since I made the same argument with Joon (I didn't believe him that Reese called this a steppingstone) but I found my copy of the book and he certainly did. What you show is what people classically think of as a steppingstone squeeze of course.

If you say so, I believe you, but it is hard for me to imagine that Reese could make a mistake like that.

I believe Reese was the one who originally wrote about the steppingstone and other related positions (quite possibly in "Master Play" but I am not sure about that and I don't seem to have a copy of that book anymore). He was really into colorful nomenclature and was one of the best analysts ever.

It just doesn't sound like a Reese-like thing to say.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

#10 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:43

You sound like me having your side of this discussion a year ago, since I couldn't believe he would say that either :) When I am home from work tonight I will edit this post or add another with the passage from the book.

FWIW I don't think he was making a 'mistake' since of course he understood the difference between the squeezes. I think it was just a sort of classification decision based on the similarities (blockage, ability to overtake in the blocked suit [Ax K not A Kx]) at the expense of the differences (1 loser vs 2 losers, squeeze card played from the K side vs the Ax side). After all, the literal word 'steppingstone' makes sense to refer to either type of squeeze, simply referring in one case to an opponent's card and in another case to the singleton K in the hand opposite the squeeze card.

Here is an article I once wrote for Jeff Goldsmith's website, showing my complete mastery of missing steppingstone squeezes when they occur. http://www.gg.caltec...html/josh1.html
As I was adding that link to my post I saw your next post. I have never seen that one before, cool!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#11 User is online   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,617
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:45

On a related note, did you know there is such a thing as a "double steppingstone"?



I actually did this once (and wrote about it in "The Deal of the Week"). I have never seen this position since and to the best of my knowledge not even Reese wrote about this position.

I am sure he would have approved of the name I gave it :)

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

#12 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:51

fred, on May 15 2007, 06:45 PM, said:

On a related note, did you know there is such a thing as a "double steppingstone"?



I actually did this once (and wrote about it in "The Deal of the Week"). I have never seen this position since and to the best of my knowledge not even Reese wrote about this position.

I am sure he would have approved of the name I gave it :)

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

wow this is insane...
0

#13 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2007-May-15, 17:56

In the last chapter of MAster Play, entitled vise, winkle, steppingstone, Reese talked about those three plays, the jettison squeeze, and an entry squeeze where declarer could afford no losers. The ending is identical to the one given in the first post here...


SOUTH cashes the spade Ten and west crumbles. It seems as if reese refers to this an an entry-squeeze (well it is) and perhaps as a version of the steppingstone where you can not afford a loser. I had always thought of a steppingstone as a squeeze where you lose a trick to one fellow and use his hand as a steppingstone to the hand on the other side.

BTW, awesome ending fred.
--Ben--

#14 User is offline   Foxx 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 346
  • Joined: 2003-February-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Jolla, California
  • Interests:Being quick, brown, and foxy; Jumping over lazy dogs

Posted 2007-May-15, 18:02

That double steppingstone popped up in the latest batch of deals in Bridge Master, I'm almost sure of it....
0

#15 User is online   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,617
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2007-May-15, 18:41

Foxx, on May 16 2007, 12:02 AM, said:

That double steppingstone popped up in the latest batch of deals in Bridge Master, I'm almost sure of it....

You are correct. It is Bridge Master Level 5 hand B-29.

I am not sure if this was the actual hand in which I played a double steppingstone at the table or if I constructed the Bridge Master hand in question.

The original double steppingstone that I played was way back in the 1980s when I was young and good like Jlall and Jdonn (actually I was only good at card play - I am sure they bid a lot better than I did when I was their age and the bidding in hand B-29 is certainly consistent with this).

As a result of my largely mispent youth I am afraid I can't remember the original hand. I do remember that the hand in question did appear in my very first computer bridge program. That was something called Base II that was released in 1990 or so. If I even have a copy of that program anymore it would be on a 5 1/4 inch floppy disk. Even if I could find a drive to read such a disk, I have no idea if the program would run on a modern PC with Windows.

I thought I wrote about this hand in "The Deal of the Week", but I can't seem to find it now in any of the 390 or so editions of that feature (not that I looked very carefully).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

#16 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2007-May-15, 19:27

Inquiry did it for me, two consecutive endings of this sort are shown in that chapter in the section called "The Steppingstone (Squeeze Entry)", and at the end he refers to it as "an entry squeeze of the steppingstone variety."

I bet Fred from my age could play circles around me now. I just talk a big game :)
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#17 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,303
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2007-May-16, 01:32

I seem to recall the ending in the OP being described in a book I read once as a "Nosittej" squeeze. If that became the standard name then bridge would have two examples of this phenomenon - a word/name being coined because it was the reverse of another (Stamyan/Namyats being the other). The only example I can think of from outside bridge is Ohm/Mho for the units of electrical resistance and conductance.
0

#18 User is offline   bid_em_up 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Joined: 2006-March-21
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 2007-May-16, 08:50

inquiry, on May 15 2007, 05:27 PM, said:

This is an entry-shifting squeeze. Usually these show up at trumps where on the last round of trumps you have the opportunity to win in either hand, and depending upon what the opponents throw away, you can setup a winner.

Here is a way, you don't need a squeeze, since you have 3 top winners. (AKA), but a blocked entry conditions exist such that you can not take them all. So you need the squeeze to manage to get them. These are rare because usually you can manage to cash your winners in the correct order. Would be great to see the full hand. ;)

So this is an unbalanced no-trump entry shifting squeeze.

I think if you just called this an Entry squeeze (as Reese did, in your later post), you would be correct. It is not an entry-shifting squeeze.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
0

#19 User is offline   Halo 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 875
  • Joined: 2006-June-08

Posted 2007-May-16, 13:53

Geza Ottlik/Hugh Kelsey refer to 'rescue' squeezes where there is entry shifting of a sort but no material sacrifice - just getting to the tricks you have.
0

#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2007-May-16, 15:49

there is a spannish book about squeezes, and he calls this kind of squeezes 'fair' squeezes, more or less for the same reasons Halo said.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users