[lenze]

A hand from our New Year’s Party

IMP’s , EW VUL, and playing with a very novice player, I picked up

S – Void
H – KQT3
D – AJ
C – AKQ9743

I was south, and West dealt and opened 3 Spades. Two passes to me. Not wanting a misunderstanding at IMPS, I bid what I thought I could make. (6 Clubs)

West led a small heart, and dummy tabled

S – Q75
H – A98542
D – T94
C – 6

Fortunately, I did not get a diamond lead, and made six even when clubs broke
4-1 . The problem is that 7 hearts is cold . I, of course, would have bid differently with my regular partner, but I am interested in how you would handle this hand

[mikestar]

With a novice, I don't think there is any better way to bid this. Dbl is the only other option and this works out well if partner bids 4H, but is a bad result if partner leaves it in and might be a disaster if he has long, weak diamonds--he might not leave you in 6C when you bid it.

With an advanced partner, I might try DBL, intending to bid 6C over 4D. If partner bids 4H we can try 5S (exclusion RKCB) or 5NT (Grand Slam Force) and carry on to seven if partner has AH. If partner bids 4C there is no way to really get to 7C if partner has AH and KD--no room to find out.

[inquiry]

Tuff hand, but since you are bidding slam anyway, you might try 4S at first (but maybe not with a novice). I surely would not double with this hand. I am not particularily concerned about partner bidding any number of diamonds, but i am worried he might make a penalty pass when I wanted to bid more.

So either 6 CLUBS (as you bid), or a more adventurous 4S. Your partner will of course be encouraged to bid... And when he bids hearts, you can get out of clubs and into hearts... the ability to bid 7H depends upon your agreements and past experiences, none of which work with a novice... let's look at a few (if partner jumps to 6H over 4S (unlikely) you will of course bid 7)....

3S-P-P-4S
P-5H-P-????

What is 5S by you?
What is 5NT by you?
What is 6C by you?

If 5NT is grandslam force which allows showing one top heart that would be great. If 5S is exclusion RKC that would be great. Without one of these weapons, you might just have to bid 6H.

[Free]

Dbl, if p bids 4D or 5D, i go for 6C, if he bids H i'll go for it...

[luke warm]

Quote

Dbl, if p bids 4D or 5D, i go for 6C, if he bids H i'll go for it...

[size-1]and if he passes?[/size]

[Free]

Then he'll have Spades and they go down a lot (Vulnerable)!!! With this hand, he'll bid 5H...

[inquiry]

Quote

Then he'll have Spades and they go down a lot (Vulnerable)!!!

Perhaps not, free. You might catch this hand with your double...

           S - xx
           H - Jxxx
           D - Kxxxx
           C - xx



S - K987             S – Void
H - Axx              H – KQT3
D - 98               D – AJ
C - JTxx             C – AKQ9743

         S - AQJTxxx
         H - xx
         D - QTxx
         C - void

In 3S doubled, they will win 3D and 6 Spades for nine tricks, while in clubs you win 7C, 4H, 1D, and a diamond ruff for 13. Change a card or two, and 3S maybe down one vul, but 6C still has great chances. Doubling with voids and offensive two suiters can be very risky. It can work out well, but I don't think you can be nearly as confident as you seem to be that a penatly pass by partner will be yummy. Remember, your opponents knew they were vul when they bid 3S.

Ben

[Free]

ok, with the drawn hand ur right, but what are the chances that they have a double fit like this? Imo, partner's hand isn't the greatest to pass 3S*, but that's interpretation of the hand...

And euhm, do you open only 3S with south's hand??? This is a clear 4S for me

[inquiry]

Free, on Jan 6 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

ok, with the drawn hand ur right, but what are the chances that they have a double fit like this? Imo, partner's hand isn't the greatest to pass 3S*, but that's interpretation of the hand...

And euhm, do you open only 3S with south's hand??? This is a clear 4S for me

I think Vul versus not vul, 3S bid is surely enough with the hand in question. If both were vul, I might venture 4S.

There fit is nothing special. With you having a void in spades, you can expect teh missing 6 spades to be 4-2 between your partner and opener's partner. And since opener's partner didn't raise, it is fairly safe to assume he didn't have the four card support.

Surely, they were lucky to have "just the right cards" to make, but it is not hard to imagine they will six spades tricks on most 3S-X all pass hands. There are many other hands one could draw up. North with 3S and a singleton club, so they can score 3 club ruffs...even two club ruffs could be disaster for you.

And come on, at this vul, looking at S-K987 and the ace of hearts, I would pass a reopen double in a flash. I was not trying to tell you how to bid, but rather that your blanket statement that if partner passes 3S that "Then he'll have Spades and they go down a lot (Vulnerable)!!!" tended to gloss over a number of problem hands. When you balance with a double with this hand and it goes horrible wrong, we end up with a "rating the blame" kind of post...

[sartaj1]

I double 3 spades for takeout.
Partner will bid 4 hearts. ( expecting him to bid 5H is too much because the primary responsibility of the partnership after opponents preempt is to get to game).

Then i bid 5NT Grand Slam force.
Over which every strong partnership has a means of showing one high trump honor. When he shows heart ace, i bid seven 7.

[mishovnbg]

Hi all!
The double here is an option only if you still play "the stone age" bridge (doesnt mean bad or losing). The modern bridge bidding is far more effective and flexible. By sacrificing some of natural bids, you can receive great advantages in game/slam cases. Here is way I prefer to play now (can read some examples in my post "Meta overcalls"):
DBL: ask partner to bid 3NT with stopper - can have minor overcall (or both minors) or bal/semibal hand without stop. Denied wild distribution, so partner can pass. All oter bids are with supposed shortness in opps suit.
3NT: to play, can have any of above hands but with stop in opps suits.
4CL/4DI: 4+CL/DI-4+HE, unbalanced, RF
4HE: nat, to play, NF
4SP: 1 suited hand, slam interest, RF
4NT: minors, wild distribution, RF
5CL/DI: nat, to play, NF
5HE: nat, slam interest, NF

In example:

S – Void
H – KQT3
D – AJ
C – AKQ9743


S – Q75
H – A98542
D – T94
C – 6

Bidding:

(3SP)-4CL-(p)-5HE(short SP in partner helps)
(p) -5SP(ERKCB)....

Misho

[inquiry]

For those interested in Misho's idea, here is the link to his META OVERCALL post.

http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...ic=1438&hl=Meta

His meta style is very interesting to try out.

[cnszsun]

I have a deal played on yesterday's BBO tourney which have similar overcall difficulty to me:

MP EW Dealer:South
                   S - Q4
                   H - 63
                   D - QJ974
                   C - 8764


S - AJ873                          S - K652
H - AJT7                           H - 
D - K                              D - AT852
C - KT9                            C - QJ32

                   S - T9
                   H - KQ98542
                   D - 63
                   C - A5

South open 3H, i think i have two choices double or 3nt, i dont want to bid double because if partner respond with 4c or 4d, i don't know where to go then, and 3nt may be our only game chance, so i choose 3nt, everyone passed.
We can make 6S here, even 4S+2 is better than 3NT+2.
I find even Misho's meta overcall structure can't handle this deal well, because i have stop and other major suit, i found dilemna here:
4H: spade suit is not good enough,
3NT: show your stop but deny spade,
double or 3S: give up 3nt
Anybody have good idea about this one?

[lenze]

[quote name='cnszsun' date='Jan 8 2004, 03:32 AM'] I have a deal played on yesterday's BBO tourney which have similar overcall difficulty to me:


South open 3H, i think i have two choices double or 3nt, i dont want to bid double because if partner respond with 4c or 4d, i don't know where to go then, and 3nt may be our only game chance, so i choose 3nt, everyone passed.
We can make 6S here, even 4S+2 is better than 3NT+2.
I find even Misho's meta overcall structure can't handle this deal well, because i have stop and other major suit, i found dilemna here:
4H: spade suit is not good enough,
3NT: show your stop but deny spade,
double or 3S: give up 3nt
Anybody have good idea about this one? [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]South open 3H, i think i have two choices double or 3nt[QUOTE]

I would suggest another option -- PASS. On the actual hand, partner would reopen with a DBL and you will have a great score, as south will take only 5 tricks!!! Few pairs will bid the marginal slam

[Free]

Exactly my thought! You don't always have to bid with a good hand, just let it go around, let partner dbl and get your good score...

Free

[cnszsun]

I'm not sure how much risk i must take if i don't make a move in direct positon. With RED vs GREEN, my partner will be very cautious to make a reopen double, even if he doubled, i'm not sure whether to turn it to penalty. I think it's very possible they down only 3, but we can make game with a little adjustment between NORTH and EAST hands.

[Trpltrbl]

mikestar, on Jan 5 2004, 07:36 PM, said:

With a novice, I don't think there is any better way to bid this. Dbl is the only other option and this works out well if partner bids 4H, but is a bad result if partner leaves it in and might be a disaster if he has long, weak diamonds--he might not leave you in 6C when you bid it.

With an advanced partner, I might try DBL, intending to bid 6C over 4D. If partner bids 4H we can try 5S (exclusion RKCB) or 5NT (Grand Slam Force) and carry on to seven if partner has AH. If partner bids 4C there is no way to really get to 7C if partner has AH and KD--no room to find out.

I don't think it's only with a novice but with a failry new pdship or just a pickup game y will bid what y think y can make. And that is 6 Cl.
But if y bid this with good pdship or somewhat discussed system . I won't X if my life was depending on it, my pd mite just pass, opps didn't support the spades. So I wud bid 4 SP, a 2 suited TO . On this hand y actually will get to Grandslam, since pd respond 5 H and y bid 5 Sp, which still shud be exclusion RKC. But if pd wud respond 5 D, generally my pd's , y just have to settle for 6 Cl and live with the fact that preempts sometimes work

Mike

[everton]

In my favourite methods:
2!C 2!S (2 controls)
3!C (nat) 3!H (nat)
4NT (trump ask) 5!S (one top honour, extra length)
7!H P

Playing 2D waiting:
2!C 2!D (waiting)
3!C nat 3!H (nat)
5!S exclusion B'wood 6!C (1 kc outside spades)
7!H P

[everton]

Oops sorry - forgot the 3S bid. I would jump to 6C as you did.