BBO Discussion Forums: It seems we have a fit. - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

It seems we have a fit.

Poll: Your approach (40 member(s) have cast votes)

Your approach

  1. Pass, I will guess right later (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Double, we may have a heart game (7 votes [17.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.50%

  3. 2 clubs, let's see what partner has (7 votes [17.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.50%

  4. 2 diamonds, this might make (1 votes [2.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.50%

  5. 2 hearts, this won't get passed (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 2 spades, a better cue than 2 clubs (9 votes [22.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.50%

  7. 3 clubs, of course this is a mixed raise (2 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  8. 3 diamonds, should be safe (2 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  9. 3 hearts, fit jump (6 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  10. 4 diamonds, the LAW tells me so (3 votes [7.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.50%

  11. 4 spades exclusion KCBW (there is always a monkey) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  12. 5 diamonds, this may make or they may guess wrong (1 votes [2.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.50%

  13. 2N, this shows roughly 2=4=5=2 with better hearts than diamonds (2 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,520
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2007-May-04, 01:28

Scoring: IMP

(1♣)-1♦-(1♠)

Please assume you are playing with an expert pickup partner, with whom you haven't discussed this particular auction, but feel free to assume you are on the same wavelength in general.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
0

#2 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2007-May-04, 01:43

I'd go with 2S, double is possible but it lets LHO have a cheap bid and also it may be hard to convince partner that we have 5 diamonds later. The need to get to hearts is not as urgent as if we had spades (since they can bid 4S over 4H). We can still find hearts if partner decides to bid them, but I really want to focus on diamonds and also jam LHO a little. I think 2S is just a bigger fit than 2C not necessarily stronger (I would bid 2C with an 18 count and 3 diamonds).
0

#3 User is offline   brianshark 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 895
  • Joined: 2006-May-13
  • Location:Dublin
  • Interests:Artificial Intelligence, Computer Games, Satire, Football, Rugby... and Bridge I suppose.

Posted 2007-May-04, 02:02

I always thought the lower cue-bid is game invite, and the higher cue-bid is game forcing. I think I'd go with the fit jump, as it is perhaps the most descriptive (apart from that uber 2NT bid) and forces us to the right level as well.
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
0

#4 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2007-May-04, 02:16

If THAT's what 2NT shows, then why not? ....
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#5 User is offline   Halo 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 875
  • Joined: 2006-June-08

Posted 2007-May-04, 02:40

I've voted for 2NT (though I assume it was a joke).

Absent this level of scientific precision I would bid 2S, because after they open and we compete I play cue bids as high cards and fit, rather than forcing or inviting game.
0

#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2007-May-04, 03:21

Count me for a double, don't feel strong enough for a cue.
0

#7 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2007-May-04, 03:36

I'd dbl or cue 2♣ depending on who opps are :ph34r:
0

#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2007-May-04, 05:21

I know more-and-more that I'm not exactly mainstream in my thinking when the immediate answer I have is not offered as an option, despite 13 options. :ph34r:

Seriously, I have probably bid 1NT in this auction with this type of hand probably a thousand times. I play this 1NT as semi-forcing, showing either an ability to play 1NT or anything else with no great idea. It typically will either show any grabbit hand (1NT has not been bid yet, and no one seems tohave a fit), a raise (simple or preemptive) with a preference for a lead in some other suit (not A/K), or maybe four of the unbid major.

Partner is invited to pass if he wants. If we are completely not suitable for 1NT, the opponents will usually pull us out of it or double.

Partner is invited to bid if he wants.

One humorous example of this happened with John Kranyak. He reopened after 1NT-P-P-?, I "pulled" to the equivalent of 2♦, and this was doubled, making five.

This should be alerted, of course, at least after the first time with a new partner. LOL
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#9 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2007-May-04, 05:37

Let's start with the positively worst bids:

Pass: Should get 0 votes, you don't pass with a fit like this.
Double: See Pass
2♦: Should get 0 votes, huge underbid.

If you voted either of those, go stand in the corner please.

2NT is self-serving - does partner understand this???

Now we got those out, what do I bid? I voted 3♥. I want partner to lead ♥ if it comes to that (or return ♥ after ♦ to Ace). I want partner to save if he has support. I want partner to bid 4♥ if it is the best game.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#10 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 18,416
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2007-May-04, 07:04

cherdano, on May 4 2007, 02:28 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(1♣)-1♦-(1♠)

Please assume you are playing with an expert pickup partner, with whom you haven't discussed this particular auction, but feel free to assume you are on the same wavelength in general.

2S seems clear but I guess not after seeing all these comments. :)
1) I have some values and support for partner.
2) I think partner has a full opener after overcalling 1C with 1D. 1D takes away no space from opp so no need for just a random overcall.
3) no stopper in spades or clubs so nt is out.
4) x here sounds like snapdragon type holding, which I do not have
5) 2clubs maybe ok but prefer to take away a level of bidding from LHO and avoid any issue over what a p/u partner may take 2clubs to mean.
6) that leaves me with a 2s cuebid.

edit I do not play jump fits so have no idea what a 3H bid shows.
0

#11 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2007-May-04, 08:02

The 3♥ really shows a similar hand with one more ♥ and one fewer ♦.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#12 User is offline   skjaeran 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,727
  • Joined: 2006-June-05
  • Location:Oslo, Norway
  • Interests:Bridge, sports, Sci-fi, fantasy

Posted 2007-May-04, 10:46

Jlall, on May 4 2007, 09:43 AM, said:

I'd go with 2S, double is possible but it lets LHO have a cheap bid and also it may be hard to convince partner that we have 5 diamonds later. The need to get to hearts is not as urgent as if we had spades (since they can bid 4S over 4H). We can still find hearts if partner decides to bid them, but I really want to focus on diamonds and also jam LHO a little. I think 2S is just a bigger fit than 2C not necessarily stronger (I would bid 2C with an 18 count and 3 diamonds).

Mostly agree with this. Put me down for 2♠.

But double is out for me - it show 5♥'s and ♦ tolerance in my methods.

If I got an 18 count and this bidding, I'd check if I got my hand from the correct deck before making any bid. B)
Kind regards,
Harald
0

#13 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-May-04, 10:55

Gerben42, on May 4 2007, 06:02 AM, said:

The 3♥ really shows a similar hand with one more ♥ and one fewer ♦.

13 choices? Arend, remind me never to go out to dinner with you at a tournament. Ordering would take forever B)

I'll borrow back and forth for my fit jumps. 4 in pard's suit and 5 in my suit is typical, but I don't think this hand evaluates much differently. I've made them with 3-6 before too.

Is 3♥ really less descriptive than 2♠ or 3♣? Its certainly more preemptive and stops a 3♣ rebid. It also stops a support double of 2♠.

Also-rans are 4 and 5 ♦'s (too preemptive; too much strength and 2-2 in the blacks suck), a snapdragon x (sorry; I'm looking at 5 diamonds here).

Anyway, if pard asks, I'll just throw a diamond in with my hearts.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#14 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-May-04, 10:56

brianshark, on May 4 2007, 12:02 AM, said:

I always thought the lower cue-bid is game invite, and the higher cue-bid is game forcing. I think I'd go with the fit jump, as it is perhaps the most descriptive (apart from that uber 2NT bid) and forces us to the right level as well.

I've played that the lower cue is limit + and the higher cue is a mixed raise.

Its pretty rare to have a 'game force' in this sequence.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#15 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2007-May-04, 12:53

pclayton, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

I've played that the lower cue is limit + and the higher cue is a mixed raise.

and the lower jump cue?
0

#16 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-May-04, 13:38

Jlall, on May 4 2007, 10:53 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

I've played that the lower cue is limit + and the higher cue is a mixed raise.

and the lower jump cue?

Slam try - obvioi ;)

Actually its exactly a limit raise with 4 trump. Transfer advances anyone?
"Phil" on BBO
0

#17 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,035
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2007-May-04, 13:56

I voted for 2♠, influenced, I suspect, by my liking of 2♣ as a transfer raise: sounder than 2♦ or very good indeed (better than limit).

I reject double, since for me it delivers longer ♥s... I don't mind 'psyching' a snapdragon double on a 4 card suit if that suit is lower than partner's because (with a double fit) I can always correct, but I won't snapdragon into a higher suit without real length.. and I won't give up snapdragon ;)

Even if double were responsive and could be used to show 4♥s, I want to take the 2-level away (which is why no transfer, plus this hand is more than a sound 2-level raise and not more than a limit) AND I want to make sure that partner knows I genuinely like ♦s... after all, my hand is wrongly-shaped for me to be making any save decision: it is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#18 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-May-04, 14:56

mikeh, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

It is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.

Isn't this the best reason for a fit jump?

I'm not tempted to go to 5♦ if pard doesn't fit hearts. If we have a double fit however, 5♦ rates to be very cheap.

My biggest fear is that our hands are mirrored.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#19 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,035
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2007-May-04, 17:37

pclayton, on May 4 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

mikeh, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

It is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.

Isn't this the best reason for a fit jump?

I'm not tempted to go to 5♦ if pard doesn't fit hearts. If we have a double fit however, 5♦ rates to be very cheap.

My biggest fear is that our hands are mirrored.

We may play fit-jumps differently: for me, the fit jump would deliver at least 5♥s along with long ♦s: I do not want to be in a 4-3 fit in 4♥ and I do not want to be in a 4-4 ♥ fit, saving against 4♠, when we have a 5-5 ♦ fit! Remember that it is partner who will be taking the save decision and he won't worry about an inadequate ♥ fit if he holds 4 of them (if you show 5, as I would via a jump)
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#20 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2007-May-04, 17:48

2S for me. I don't want to bid 2C, it takes up too little room.

I'm surprised nobody has made an argument for playing 2S as natural.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users