[cherdano]

Scoring: IMP

(1♣)-1♦-(1♠)

---

Please assume you are playing with an expert pickup partner, with whom you haven't discussed this particular auction, but feel free to assume you are on the same wavelength in general.

[brianshark]

I always thought the lower cue-bid is game invite, and the higher cue-bid is game forcing. I think I'd go with the fit jump, as it is perhaps the most descriptive (apart from that uber 2NT bid) and forces us to the right level as well.

[gwnn]

If THAT's what 2NT shows, then why not? ....

[Halo]

I've voted for 2NT (though I assume it was a joke).

Absent this level of scientific precision I would bid 2S, because after they open and we compete I play cue bids as high cards and fit, rather than forcing or inviting game.

[Fluffy]

Count me for a double, don't feel strong enough for a cue.

[whereagles]

I'd dbl or cue 2♣ depending on who opps are

[kenrexford]

I know more-and-more that I'm not exactly mainstream in my thinking when the immediate answer I have is not offered as an option, despite 13 options.

Seriously, I have probably bid 1NT in this auction with this type of hand probably a thousand times. I play this 1NT as semi-forcing, showing either an ability to play 1NT or anything else with no great idea. It typically will either show any grabbit hand (1NT has not been bid yet, and no one seems tohave a fit), a raise (simple or preemptive) with a preference for a lead in some other suit (not A/K), or maybe four of the unbid major.

Partner is invited to pass if he wants. If we are completely not suitable for 1NT, the opponents will usually pull us out of it or double.

Partner is invited to bid if he wants.

One humorous example of this happened with John Kranyak. He reopened after 1NT-P-P-?, I "pulled" to the equivalent of 2♦, and this was doubled, making five.

This should be alerted, of course, at least after the first time with a new partner. LOL

[Gerben42]

Let's start with the positively worst bids:

Pass: Should get 0 votes, you don't pass with a fit like this.
Double: See Pass
2♦: Should get 0 votes, huge underbid.

If you voted either of those, go stand in the corner please.

2NT is self-serving - does partner understand this???

Now we got those out, what do I bid? I voted 3♥. I want partner to lead ♥ if it comes to that (or return ♥ after ♦ to Ace). I want partner to save if he has support. I want partner to bid 4♥ if it is the best game.

[mike777]

cherdano, on May 4 2007, 02:28 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(1♣)-1♦-(1♠)

---

Please assume you are playing with an expert pickup partner, with whom you haven't discussed this particular auction, but feel free to assume you are on the same wavelength in general.

2S seems clear but I guess not after seeing all these comments.
1) I have some values and support for partner.
2) I think partner has a full opener after overcalling 1C with 1D. 1D takes away no space from opp so no need for just a random overcall.
3) no stopper in spades or clubs so nt is out.
4) x here sounds like snapdragon type holding, which I do not have
5) 2clubs maybe ok but prefer to take away a level of bidding from LHO and avoid any issue over what a p/u partner may take 2clubs to mean.
6) that leaves me with a 2s cuebid.

edit I do not play jump fits so have no idea what a 3H bid shows.

[Gerben42]

The 3♥ really shows a similar hand with one more ♥ and one fewer ♦.

[skjaeran]

Jlall, on May 4 2007, 09:43 AM, said:

I'd go with 2S, double is possible but it lets LHO have a cheap bid and also it may be hard to convince partner that we have 5 diamonds later. The need to get to hearts is not as urgent as if we had spades (since they can bid 4S over 4H). We can still find hearts if partner decides to bid them, but I really want to focus on diamonds and also jam LHO a little. I think 2S is just a bigger fit than 2C not necessarily stronger (I would bid 2C with an 18 count and 3 diamonds).

Mostly agree with this. Put me down for 2♠.

But double is out for me - it show 5♥'s and ♦ tolerance in my methods.

If I got an 18 count and this bidding, I'd check if I got my hand from the correct deck before making any bid.

[pclayton]

Gerben42, on May 4 2007, 06:02 AM, said:

The 3♥ really shows a similar hand with one more ♥ and one fewer ♦.

13 choices? Arend, remind me never to go out to dinner with you at a tournament. Ordering would take forever

I'll borrow back and forth for my fit jumps. 4 in pard's suit and 5 in my suit is typical, but I don't think this hand evaluates much differently. I've made them with 3-6 before too.

Is 3♥ really less descriptive than 2♠ or 3♣? Its certainly more preemptive and stops a 3♣ rebid. It also stops a support double of 2♠.

Also-rans are 4 and 5 ♦'s (too preemptive; too much strength and 2-2 in the blacks suck), a snapdragon x (sorry; I'm looking at 5 diamonds here).

Anyway, if pard asks, I'll just throw a diamond in with my hearts.

[pclayton]

brianshark, on May 4 2007, 12:02 AM, said:

I always thought the lower cue-bid is game invite, and the higher cue-bid is game forcing. I think I'd go with the fit jump, as it is perhaps the most descriptive (apart from that uber 2NT bid) and forces us to the right level as well.

I've played that the lower cue is limit + and the higher cue is a mixed raise.

Its pretty rare to have a 'game force' in this sequence.

[pclayton]

Jlall, on May 4 2007, 10:53 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

I've played that the lower cue is limit + and the higher cue is a mixed raise.

and the lower jump cue?

Slam try - obvioi

Actually its exactly a limit raise with 4 trump. Transfer advances anyone?

[mikeh]

I voted for 2♠, influenced, I suspect, by my liking of 2♣ as a transfer raise: sounder than 2♦ or very good indeed (better than limit).

I reject double, since for me it delivers longer ♥s... I don't mind 'psyching' a snapdragon double on a 4 card suit if that suit is lower than partner's because (with a double fit) I can always correct, but I won't snapdragon into a higher suit without real length.. and I won't give up snapdragon

Even if double were responsive and could be used to show 4♥s, I want to take the 2-level away (which is why no transfer, plus this hand is more than a sound 2-level raise and not more than a limit) AND I want to make sure that partner knows I genuinely like ♦s... after all, my hand is wrongly-shaped for me to be making any save decision: it is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.

[pclayton]

mikeh, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

It is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.

Isn't this the best reason for a fit jump?

I'm not tempted to go to 5♦ if pard doesn't fit hearts. If we have a double fit however, 5♦ rates to be very cheap.

My biggest fear is that our hands are mirrored.

[mikeh]

pclayton, on May 4 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

mikeh, on May 4 2007, 11:56 AM, said:

It is partner's shape that is critical if they get to 4♠. I do not want to show ♥s (unless also promising lonnnnng ♦s) and face a decision over 4♠, feeling I should consider saving due to my undisclosed support.

Isn't this the best reason for a fit jump?

I'm not tempted to go to 5♦ if pard doesn't fit hearts. If we have a double fit however, 5♦ rates to be very cheap.

My biggest fear is that our hands are mirrored.

We may play fit-jumps differently: for me, the fit jump would deliver at least 5♥s along with long ♦s: I do not want to be in a 4-3 fit in 4♥ and I do not want to be in a 4-4 ♥ fit, saving against 4♠, when we have a 5-5 ♦ fit! Remember that it is partner who will be taking the save decision and he won't worry about an inadequate ♥ fit if he holds 4 of them (if you show 5, as I would via a jump)

[han]

2S for me. I don't want to bid 2C, it takes up too little room.

I'm surprised nobody has made an argument for playing 2S as natural.