[kgr]

This question popped up after reading:
1NT-2C
2D-4NT
5D = minimum with 5 card D
=>
How do you play:
1NT-2C
2D-4NT
5NT
Is it re-invite or something else (Eg: not minimal with 4-4 minors)?

[FrancesHinden]

If it ever came up I would play it as a re-invite, by implication without a 5-card suit.

[SoTired]

5N does not exist and I can't think of any use for it. If you are in the middle of a 3-point range, either pass or bid 6N.

Other bids do have a use. For example, 5m shows a 5-card suit, looking for supporting honors for 6m or 6N. 6m is the cheapest 4-card suit and a maximum, hoping that a 4-4 minor fit will play better than 6N.

[kgr]

SoTired, on May 18 2007, 03:04 PM, said:

5N does not exist and I can't think of any use for it. If you are in the middle of a 3-point range, either pass or bid 6N.

Other bids do have a use. For example, 5m shows a 5-card suit, looking for supporting honors for 6m or 6N. 6m is the cheapest 4-card suit and a maximum, hoping that a 4-4 minor fit will play better than 6N.

Isn't it better then to play 5NT as 4-4 minors and a small doubleton M
and 6m as a 5-card?

[SoTired]

kgr, on May 18 2007, 08:43 AM, said:

SoTired, on May 18 2007, 03:04 PM, said:

5N does not exist and I can't think of any use for it. If you are in the middle of a 3-point range, either pass or bid 6N.

Other bids do have a use. For example, 5m shows a 5-card suit, looking for supporting honors for 6m or 6N. 6m is the cheapest 4-card suit and a maximum, hoping that a 4-4 minor fit will play better than 6N.

Isn't it better then to play 5NT as 4-4 minors and a small doubleton M
and 6m as a 5-card?

Play 1N 4N different from 1N 2C 2D 4N? No way!
To play a 4-4 minor fit instead of 6N, opener bids 6C. If that does not hit responder and responder has 4♦, then responder bids 6D, else 6N. No reason to tell opps about opener's 4-4 minor holding if responder does not have either minor.

If opener has a 5-card minor, opener bids 5m.

This is simple and easy to remember, esp for a seldom used bid. I still don't see a use for 5N and I certainly would not want to use 5N differently whether Stayman was used or not.

[han]

Blame transfer, very useful for long matches.

[jdonn]

kgr, on May 18 2007, 08:43 AM, said:

Isn't it better then to play 5NT as 4-4 minors and a small doubleton M
and 6m as a 5-card?

Close, 5NT just asks partner to bid a 4 card minor if he thinks it might play better, opener has one or two four card minors.
Like say opener has Ax QJxx Axx KQxx and responder has Kxx Kx KQxx AJxx, needless to say 6♣ is far superior to 6NT, and there is no other reasonable way to bid it with natural methods.

SoTired, on May 18 2007, 09:03 AM, said:

To play a 4-4 minor fit instead of 6N, opener bids 6C. If that does not hit responder and responder has 4♦, then responder bids 6D, else 6N. No reason to tell opps about opener's 4-4 minor holding if responder does not have either minor.

If opener has a 5-card minor, opener bids 5m.

Ack, no no no! 6 minor shows a VERY good 5, or a good 6 card minor, and says this is probably our best contract. You can't bid 5m on that hand planning to bid 6m next since partner might get in your way with 6NT. 5m shows 5 and asks responder to reevaluate on that basis, he can bid 5NT or 6m or 6NT depending on his hand, and opener can pass or raise 5NT. 5NT is how you find your 4-4 fits in a minor. This seems completely straightforward, 5NT is just pick-a-slam, it's not some fancy obscure convention. And it's certainly not some re-invite for those who think that.

[pclayton]

I play 5N as pick a slam. I would expect opener doesn't have a 4333.

Here's a side note to these discussions. How do you play 1N - 4♠? I play it as minor suit stayman (but only 4-4) with a slam going hand. Perhaps this treatment affects 1N - 4N, but perhaps it doesn't, since 4N is limited and 4♠ isn't.

Thoughts?

[kgr]

1NT-2C
2D-4NT
5m
or
1NT-4NT
5m
Where 5m shows a 5-card minor.
Do you consider 5m forcing or should opener bid 6m with max hand and 5 card m?

[foo]

kgr, on May 18 2007, 07:03 AM, said:

This question popped up after reading:
1NT-2C
2D-4NT
5D = minimum with 5 card D
=>
How do you play:
1NT-2C
2D-4NT
5NT
Is it re-invite or something else (Eg: not minimal with 4-4 minors)?

The basic treatment doesn't make sense.

The proper rebid with a minimum after 1N-2C;2D-4N is =pass=.
Any bid should show more than a minimum.

The best treatment I've seen bids 6N with a maximum and Something Else with a medium strength hand.

So 1N-2C;2D-4N;5D should show a medium NT hand with 5 D's.