[mike777]

p=(2d)=x=(xx)
P(you)?

How do you play the pass of 2dxx?

2d=natural, weak.

MP, opp are vul.

[cherdano]

Penalty.

[P_Marlowe]

First question: what was XX?
Please dont say undiscussed, i.e. pickup partnership,
because in this scenario I dont care, but
I would assume pass shows no preference.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[skjaeran]

No preference.

[mike777]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 25 2007, 12:33 PM, said:

First question: what was XX?
Please dont say undiscussed, i.e. pickup partnership,
because in this scenario I dont care, but
I would assume pass shows no preference.

With kind regards
Marlowe

No alert, so assume good hand...not runout. In fact lho will pass 2dxx back to your partner. Does that help?

Btw if pass here means no preference with Q9xxx of diamonds it means I need to show a preference or pass and pull of partners major suit bid is ok?

My hand was something like:
xx....Jx.......Q97xx...AJTx.

[mikeh]

I play passes of xx's of opening 1 bids as penalty (yes, I understand this is a minority view), but I would play this as no preference (I echo Justin's point about 3♣ on the actual hand).

The reason for the different approach is that the weak two, while a level higher, will tend to deliver a better and longer suit than is promised by a one level bid.

This argument is not quite as strong when comparing a 5 card major opening to some of the weak two bids we see these days, but it is still, generally, valid. While most forum posters appear (from the comments I read) to be on the hyper-aggressive side (not you, mike777 ), in real life the majority of average to average plus players are more traditional. So while I have seen (and have opened) some horrendous weak two's, I have also seen terrible suits passed, while no-one bats an eye at 1♠ on A5432 KJx Axx xx, for example, where my KQJ1098 scores 5 trump tricks... and I've had better defensive holdings than that after partner's double.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Apr 25 2007, 06:03 PM, said:

I play passes of xx's of opening 1 bids as penalty (yes, I understand this is a minority view), but I would play this as no preference (I echo Justin's point about 3♣ on the actual hand).

The reason for the different approach is that the weak two, while a level higher, will tend to deliver a better and longer suit than is promised by a one level bid.

This argument is not quite as strong when comparing a 5 card major opening to some of the weak two bids we see these days, but it is still, generally, valid. While most forum posters appear (from the comments I read) to be on the hyper-aggressive side (not you, mike777 ), in real life the majority of average to average plus players are more traditional. So while I have seen (and have opened) some horrendous weak two's, I have also seen terrible suits passed, while no-one bats an eye at 1♠ on A5432 KJx Axx xx, for example, where my KQJ1098 scores 5 trump tricks... and I've had better defensive holdings than that after partner's double.

That's an interesting argument that I wouldn't have expected. You are right that the random F2F bridge player has a much better suit on average than a random BBO forum poster.

But then why do you suppose it's the case then than penalty passes are so much more frequent on the 2 level? I would say they are at least 15 times more frequent, easily. I suppose that has a fair bit to do with 2NT often not being a natural option, I admit.

[whereagles]

Having seen some 2♦ prees of lately, I'd pretty much say that there's a case for "pass = I like diams!"

[FrancesHinden]

Penalties.

[sheepman]

What if it goes

(ekren 2♥)-X-(XX)-?

[hrothgar]

sheepman, on Apr 26 2007, 04:28 PM, said:

What if it goes

(ekren 2♥)-X-(XX)-?

Here's the traditional meaning of the different bids

2♥ = Assumed fit. 4+ Hearts and 4+ Spades. ~ 5-9 HCP
X = Penalty oriented (often a balanced hand with 13-15 HCP)
XX = You made a terrible TERRIBLE mistake butting into this auction

At this point in time, the over-riding priority is survival. Most methods are going to be geared towards finding a safe harbor. In many cases, pass will promise or deny a certain hand type to improve the accuracy of your wriggling.

One very important point: You need to determine whether or not the XX establishes a forcing pass and (if so) when the forcing pass applies. If the opponents claim that XX is a strong bid but that it doesn't establish any kind of forcing pass then there is probably something severely fishy going on. They are probably prone to making a "psychic" XX attempting to scare you into pulling.

[Gerben42]

Original auction: pick a major pd.

How about 2♥/♠* X XX P?

* Natural

Or...

2♦* X XX** P?

* Multi
** I like ♦

[FrancesHinden]

They are all for penalties.
Keeps life simple!

p.s. I've had a penalty pass in these auctions sufficiently often that if this is the wrong treatment, it is certainly only very marginally so.