[Flame]

Bidding avaliable suit below game as general invite in situations like 1M-3D* bergen or 1S-(2D)-2S-(3D) is standard intermidite bidding.

[Halo]

I don't think I can find out what I need to know, so it's just an RKCB blast for me -might as well be now as later.

[mike777]

It would seem very difficult to stop short of the five level. You have a 5 loser hand with great controls and partner will very often have an 8 loser hand or better(not 100%).

I guess the non rkc bidders are worried about an 8.5 ltc responder hand with 3433 shape or something close to that. I would just bid 2s with that hand type but I guess that is not standard here.

[Apollo81]

Flame, on Apr 21 2007, 05:19 PM, said:

Bidding avaliable suit below game as general invite in situations like 1M-3D* bergen or 1S-(2D)-2S-(3D) is standard intermidite bidding.

Josh's point is that it doesn't make sense to split hairs after a certain point. 1♠-3♦ bergen shows a 4-card limit raise. 1♠-3♣ Bergen shows a 4-card constructive (slightly worse than limit) raise. Since responder has two options here when he chooses the limit raise he is shoiwng a very narrow range of hands. It just doesnt make sense to systemically have a invitation opposite something that is already a 2-point range or less.

[jdonn]

I guess that's essentially my point. It's a lot like why I disagree with a forcing pass in a lot of auctions where people seem to play it. It's just a guess transfer. When partner makes a limit raise and you have a close decision, it won't matter if partner's hand technically evaluates to 11.12 or 11.93, it will matter how well the hands fit, and there is no way to find that out by sending partner the message "I don't know what to do".

Even if 3♥ in the original problem should always be used as a game try (I have no idea why it couldn't also be made on a slam try) I'm still sure it should be a natural one, and opener should guess to bid game or not whenever he can't make that bid. At least that way when he DOES make it, responder will know how to evaluate his hand, and actually make a good decision.

[Flame]

Apollo81, on Apr 22 2007, 10:27 AM, said:

Flame, on Apr 21 2007, 05:19 PM, said:

Bidding avaliable suit below game as general invite in situations like 1M-3D* bergen or 1S-(2D)-2S-(3D) is standard intermidite bidding.

Josh's point is that it doesn't make sense to split hairs after a certain point. 1♠-3♦ bergen shows a 4-card limit raise. 1♠-3♣ Bergen shows a 4-card constructive (slightly worse than limit) raise. Since responder has two options here when he chooses the limit raise he is shoiwng a very narrow range of hands. It just doesnt make sense to systemically have a invitation opposite something that is already a 2-point range or less.

If the range you use is small enough that you need a slam try more then a game try then i suggest you make the range larger. As in any game try you can use it for slam try. Anyway i didnt say its obviously better to play it as a game try, i know many people dont like game tries, i only said its not an expert tool, its intermidiate tool.