[000002]

i met this hand 2days ago,the aution started from a fitjump:
1♦--1♥---3♣---?

opponent open 1♦,partner overcall 1♥,RHO jump 3♣ with 8-10Hcps and 44minors,total 9cards+always,unbalanced normally.

what is 3♦-Q meaning?


and how to prevent opps 6♦ when we are unbalanced too?following hand described belong to N-S.
9854
8
AK873
A92

----
Q92
J972
KQJ864

it appeared on chinese bridge association "canghe autocar" cup tournament,would u like to teach them?

thanks ,regards

000002

[inquiry]

I would play cue-bid to show good raise to 3♥ while a direct raise to 3♥ is just competitive. A double of 3♣ would show spades and at least a tolerance for hearts.

If you want to be sure to keep them from bidding 6♦ reach over and pull the 6[ci] cards out of their bidding boxes.

Actually, i think they may have trouble bidding it if 3♣ only promised 4 clubs. The reason why 6♦ is a reasonable contract (still needs 2-2 diamonds or singleton Queen) is the source of tricks provides by six remarkably strong clubs. Fit jumps really should promise at least five in jumped suit.

[Free]

agree 100% with Ben

[skjaeran]

Free, on Apr 15 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

agree 100% with Ben

Ditto.

[000002]

inquiry, on Apr 15 2007, 10:30 AM, said:

I would play cue-bid to show good raise to 3♥ while a direct raise to 3♥ is just competitive. A double of 3♣ would show spades and at least a tolerance for hearts.

If you want to be sure to keep them from bidding 6♦ reach over and pull the 6[ci] cards out of their bidding boxes.

Actually, i think they may have trouble bidding it if 3♣ only promised 4 clubs. The reason why 6♦ is a reasonable contract (still needs 2-2 diamonds or singleton Queen) is the source of tricks provides by six remarkably strong clubs. Fit jumps really should promise at least five in jumped suit.

yes i agree u.but i notice that we have 12max points in this case---open+overcall+invite=28Hcps always.

with 8-12ps,to distinguish invitation or competition is necessary,but i think it's NOT key focus now when i raise a simple overcall to 3level.it's auto promise that i have an invitational hand.

when i start an invitatioal DBL-3♣,partner(overcaller) can cue 3♦ to invite me too,or DBL-3♦ to show invitational hand.
1d--1h--3c--x
3d--x:invite 4♥.


what is the difference between this 2way?
if we DBL-3♣ to show ♠,what is 3♦ meaning if overcaller bid it?
1d--1h--3c--x
/----3d?
shape/counts/trump/stopper?


regards 000002

[the hog]

"with 8-12ps,to distinguish invitation or competition is necessary,but i think it's NOT key focus now when i raise a simple overcall to 3level.it's auto promise that i have an invitational hand."

No its not. Or perhaps better to say "IF it is for you, then you would be better off playing that the raise to the 3 level is pre emptive and the cue shows the invit raise."

I agree with Ben, Free and Skaeran.

[cherdano]

000002, on Apr 15 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

yes i agree u.but i notice that we have 12max points in this case---open+overcall+invite=28Hcps always.

Wait a second. Opening = 10 hcp at least, overcall = 6 hcp at least, 3♣, hmm, explained as 8-10, makes a total of 24 hcp at least. Why do i need 8 hcp to bid? xxxxx Axxx x xxx is a useful 3♥ bid IMO. So my range would be more like 4-16.

[inquiry]

000002, on Apr 15 2007, 05:40 PM, said:

yes i agree u.but i notice that we have 12max points in this case---open+overcall+invite=28Hcps always.

with 8-12ps,to distinguish invitation or competition is necessary,but i think it's NOT key focus now when i raise a simple overcall to 3level.it's auto promise that i have an invitational hand.

when i start an invitatioal DBL-3♣,partner(overcaller) can cue 3♦ to invite me too,or DBL-3♦ to show invitational hand.
1d--1h--3c--x
3d--x:invite 4♥.


what is the difference between this 2way?
if we DBL-3♣ to show ♠,what is 3♦ meaning if overcaller bid it?
1d--1h--3c--x
/----3d?
shape/counts/trump/stopper?


regards 000002

I think a raise to the 3 level as "auto-promise that I have an invitational hand" is a losing proposition. Let's see your other choices you listed..

As I read what you say,
(1D)-1H-(3C)-3H <---- auto promise of invite hand
(1D)-1H-(3C)-3D <---- you show an invitational hand
(1D)-1H-(3C)-DBL <--- invite, and unique follow up, opener can now reinvite with 3♥

Ok, you have no way to show spades, you have no way to just compete in hearts, and you have not one, not two but three ways to invite in hearts. Why? And intersting after the dbl to invite opener can re-invite, so lets call it four ways to invite.

I have to admit that I am not fond of this at all.

[000002]

cherdano: yes, u r right.

when we construct an overcalling frame,we should suppose typical hand without special. openner maybe 8Hps only,F-Jumper maybe nobbler,and partner maybe 6ps.....
but, we are in gear.


inquriy: yes, many way to detect game.
but ,do we ever arrange it in science?
why 3♦-q is intense invitation?

i don't believe any bridge rule now, because occident ever taught chineses that "to die without free" .


regards
000002