[mike777]

Did I miss the worldwide outcry and protests against the seizure of 15 Brits?

Perhaps the USA/World is finally focusing on that mass murderer, war criminal, torturer, robber of oil, abuser of human rights, invader of privacy and in general ignorer of laws who heads the USA government?

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Mar 26 2007, 10:18 PM, said:

Perhaps the USA/World is  finally focusing on that mass murderer, war criminal, torturer, robber of oil,  abuser of human rights, invader of privacy and in general ignorer of laws who heads the USA government?

Dick Cheney?

[Winstonm]

The Onion.com

Bush Announces Iraq Exit Strategy: 'We'll Go Through Iran'

[mike777]

About time we had a reliable news source on the net.

I see little interest in Cromwell's offspring.

[Winstonm]

One might consider the muted response as rasing doubt as to the true location of the Brits and what they were doing there.

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Mar 27 2007, 06:18 AM, said:

Did I miss the worldwide outcry and protests against the seizure of 15 Brits?

Why would you expect any kind of world wide protest?

There are certainly protests about the war in general, both pro and con, but isolated incidents rarely get their own protest unless they're a truly remarkable atrocity. For example, I don't recall and massive protests or complaints when the US attacked the Iranian Consulate in Erbil. I'd be very surprised to see any real protests over this kind of pissing match on the Iran / Iraq border.

Regretfully, while this latest incident is largely being ignored, it has the potential to escalate tensions in the Gulf. I've seen a couple sites link to report that that the Iranian are torturing the British sailors using the same "coercive interogation" techniques that the the US is using Gitmo and Iraq.

Apparantly, the attack was launched by Iran's Revolutionary Guards which further complicates matters. As I understand matters, the Revolutionary Guards don't really answer to the government in the same way that the Iranian Army / Air Force do. (There are close relations between the Revolutionary Guard and President Ahmadinejad however this appears to be a personal relationship based on the fact that Ahmadinejad was a member of the Revolutionary Guards during the Iran Iraq war).

A number of countries have displomatic relations with the Iranian government, but its unclear whether anyone is in a position to negotiate with the Revolutionary Guards.

[Al_U_Card]

Winstonm, on Mar 26 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

mike777, on Mar 26 2007, 10:18 PM, said:

Perhaps the USA/World is  finally focusing on that mass murderer, war criminal, torturer, robber of oil,  abuser of human rights, invader of privacy and in general ignorer of laws who heads the USA government?

Dick Cheney?

You forgot profiteer and madman...

[mike777]

Thought I read somewhere that the head of the Rev. Guards very recently disappeared in Istanbul. Common thinking was he had defected. This incident may be an attempt to force him back or in retaliation?

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Mar 27 2007, 11:26 PM, said:

Thought I read somewhere that the head of the Rev. Guards very recently disappeared in Istanbul. Common thinking was he had defected.  This incident may be an attempt to force him back or in retaliation?

I just did a Google news search on Yahya Rahim Safavi. I didn't find anything about his defecting. I did, however, find the following

Quote

In recent weeks, Iran accused the United States of kidnapping Ali Reza Asgari, a former Iranian deputy defense minister and Guards commander in Lebanon in the 1980s. He was last seen in Turkey in February. A CIA spokesman, Paul Gimigliano said, "The agency does not, as a rule, comment publicly on these kinds of allegations, no matter how idiotic they may be."

There some claims that Ali Reza Asgari defected to the West.
The Iranians are claiming that he was kidnapped.

Here's one story from a couple weeks ago
http://www.ynetnews....3374863,00.html

[mike777]

Yes, Asgari, I think he is or was the Commander of the Revolutionary Guard and is reputed to know a great deal about Iran's nuclear program. This incident maybe ransom or payback?

[luke warm]

mike777, on Mar 26 2007, 10:18 PM, said:

Did I miss the worldwide outcry and protests against the seizure of 15 Brits?

i think the outcry is in the planning stages as we speak

[mike777]

Not for the first time Congress is spinning its wheels fighting and refighting the last war(iraq) while Bush cancels shore leave and sends a second carrier into position and Blair saber rattles. Hopefully Congress will start to look at this before we are at war for 4-5 years.

[mike777]

BTW this is a very tiny waterway and I assume we have CAP only seconds away 24/7? Where was the CAP and what decisions were made? Yet the media fails to ask these questions. HMMMM

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Mar 28 2007, 03:09 AM, said:

Not for the first time Congress is spinning its wheels fighting and refighting the last war(iraq) while Bush cancels shore leave and sends a second carrier into position and Blair saber rattles. Hopefully Congress will start to look at this before we are at war for 4-5 years.

The Democratic party had a big internal debate on this topic a couple weeks back.

The Democrats were originally planning to amend the supplemental appropriate for the Iraq conflict to specifically forbid any military attack on Iran without first securing Congressional authorization.

The amendment was withdrawn after AIPAC kicked off a heavy lobbying campaign.

[Winstonm]

Chuck Hagel has mentioned impeachment if Bush attacks Iran without Congress approval - like that will ever happen.

At what point did we become a nation with only one political party?

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Mar 27 2007, 07:36 PM, said:

Chuck Hagel has mentioned impeachment if Bush attacks Iran without Congress approval - like that will ever happen.

At what point did we become a nation with only one political party?

Well can a President strike if the threat is imminent or does she have to wait until Congress acts? Is the kidnapping of 15 British troops enough, if not what is? Just asking, I think this is a tough question, but I bet the vast majority say yes we do not have to wait until the homeland is bombed but what the heck is enough?

[Winstonm]

Quote

Well can a President strike if the threat is imminent or does she have to wait until Congress acts?

I can't grasp why this is so hard to understand:

Section 8. "The Congress shall have power to declare war"

[Winstonm]

Didn't know where to post this - I couldn't find the original posts, but I am sure everyone remembers the big dismissal of the Lancet published study finding over 600,000 Iraqis had died since the U.S. led invasion?

Now we have this:

Quote

British Government Admits 600,000+ Iraqi Death Toll

Jill Lawless
London Independent
Tuesday, March 27, 2007

British government officials have backed the methods used by scientists who concluded that more than 600,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion, the BBC reported yesterday.

The Government publicly rejected the findings, published in The Lancet in October. But the BBC said documents obtained under freedom of information legislation showed advisers concluded that the much-criticised study had used sound methods.

The study, conducted by researchers from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and the Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad, estimated that 655,000 more Iraqis had died since March 2003 than one would expect without the war. The study estimated that 601,027 of those deaths were from violence.

The researchers, reflecting the inherent uncertainties in such extrapolations, said they were 95 per cent certain that the real number of deaths lay somewhere between 392,979 and 942,636.

The conclusion, based on interviews and not a body count, was disputed by some experts, and rejected by the US and British governments. But the chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defence, Roy Anderson, described the methods used in the study as "robust" and "close to best practice". Another official said it was "a tried and tested way of measuring mortality in conflict zones".

Of course, Bill O'Reilly is still claiming only 3 deaths, two by car accident and one squatted on accidentally by a camel.

[mike777]

Is the EU doing anything to help out the British in this standoff with Iran? Are they saying anything? What are the British saying or asking of the EU?

Does the majority of the EU ultimately blame the USA and its policies and actions?

[pbleighton]

"Is the EU doing anything to help out the British in this standoff with Iran? Are they saying anything? What are the British saying or asking of the EU?"

The EU is not a military body. NATO would be the applicable entity.

"Does the majority of the EU ultimately blame the USA and its policies and actions?"

Perhaps not solely, but it's obvious that if Bush hadn't started this lunacy (and if Blair hadn't gone along for the ride), which most Western European nations disagreed with, this incident wouldn't have happened.

Peter