[gingolia]

Scoring: MP

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Auction to you: Partner deals and open 1♦; RHO passes

Assume you play 2/1 with inverted minors, fit jumps (inv+), and have an agreement that bidding 1♦ before showing a 4cM shows extras.

Couple questions ...
a. What do you bid?
b. If you are constrained to have bid 1♠ first time around, what do you bid on the uncontested auction 1♦-1♠; 2♦-???
c. If you are constrained to have bid 1♠ first time around, what do you bid on the uncontested auction 1♦-1♠; 3♦-???

No need to respond to b. & c. if you think the hand should not have bid 1♠ first time around.

Thanks in advance,
Greg Ingolia

[Apollo81]

a. 1♠
b. probably 5♦
c. RKC

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

[pbleighton]

I have to bid 1S.

After a 2D rebid by partner, I bid 5D. No aces opposite <16 from pd, I might miss a slam but I don't think so.

After a 3D rebid by partner, I bid 4D, key card ask in diamonds.

Peter

[gingolia]

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

For better or worse, we play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ promising 5+♠, so I guess 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ is out of the question with our methods.

[skjaeran]

a. 1♠. Need to bid my major first, else the best scoring game of slam might be missed. A fit jump shows 5c♠, so that's out.

b. I'm too strong for a simple raise to 3♦. I'd bid 3♣ FSF, and get to a possibly light game.

c). I'd make a forcing raise to 4♦. We're close to slam here. 3NT isn't tempting, even though it might be the best spot at MP.

[inquiry]

I will assume a typo, and that you meant, your agreement is to "respond" 2♦ (not 1♦) when holding a four card major shows "extras".

Playing what you play, I will respond initialy with 1♠. This is not "enough" extra to confuse the auction with a 2♦ response.

If over 1♠ partner rebid 2♦ I would trott out 3♦

If over 1♠ partner jumped to 3♦ I would use 3♥ and if partner bids 3NT (showing clearly ace or king of clubs for his club stopper--since I have the queen), I will make slam noise with 4♦ (forcing). On the other hand, if he bids 4♦, I will raise to 5♦.

[Trudy1959]

1. I would bid 1♠
2. I would bid 3nt over 2♦ ... we have the values and likely the tricks (♦ suit) for game ... I want to protect my round suit tenaces and play in the likely best scoring game
3. 4♦ if this is slam-going

Tru

[pbleighton]

"I would bid 3nt over 2D ... we have the values and likely the tricks (D suit) for game ... I want to protect my round suit tenaces and play in the likely best scoring game"

And I thought I was a NT pig at matchpoints

Seriously, a 10+ card fit, and even I want to play in 5m.

Peter

[Apollo81]

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

For better or worse, we play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ promising 5+♠, so I guess 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ is out of the question with our methods.

Yeah not many people play what I suggested.

[gingolia]

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

For better or worse, we play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ promising 5+♠, so I guess 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ is out of the question with our methods.

Yeah not many people play what I suggested.

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as art. GF, how do you show weak 5♠-4♥ hands?

With what type of hands do you think the 2♥ art. game force gains? loses?

[skjaeran]

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 07:56 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

For better or worse, we play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ promising 5+♠, so I guess 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ is out of the question with our methods.

Yeah not many people play what I suggested.

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as art. GF, how do you show weak 5♠-4♥ hands?

With what type of hands do you think the 2♥ art. game force gains? loses?

I played something like this with one partner. The "weak" 5♠ - 4♥ hand was shown by jumping to 2♥'s over 1♦.

Playing this method, the 2♥ art GF is a sure winner in GF sequences, since you gain bidding room and are better placed when it comes to rightside 3NT.

What you lose is your normal meaning of 1♦ - 2♥ - whatever that is.

I haven't played this method with any regular partner, so I've got little experience playing it (can't remember if it showed up at the time - it's more than 10 years ago).

[Apollo81]

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 01:56 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

gingolia, on Apr 5 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 5 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as an artificial game force would help here.

For better or worse, we play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ promising 5+♠, so I guess 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ is out of the question with our methods.

Yeah not many people play what I suggested.

Playing 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as art. GF, how do you show weak 5♠-4♥ hands?

With what type of hands do you think the 2♥ art. game force gains? loses?

I play 1♦-2♠ is a hand that would bid 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ in standard methods and that 1♦-2♥ is a hand that would like to do that but is too weak.

The pluses are:
(1) 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ can be used as an artificial game force
(2) we can show a weak hand with the majors. We can also do that in standard if partner is sporting enough to rebid 1NT, but we're out of luck if partner rebids 2m.

The minuses are:
(1) these auctions require really good hand valuation skills for both opener and responder (this is not as easy as it seems)
(2) 1d-2M can no longer be used as strong, weak, 3-way, etc. which are all helpful as well
(3) good agreements after 1d-2M are required to ensure that you don't have system losses

[mikeh]

1♠ is clear... how else do we intelligently find our ♠ fit, which may be the same combined length as ♦s if partner is 4432?

Over 2♦, this is a problem area in standard bidding, and most expert pairs have agreements to cope with it. The one I use is 2♥ artificial one round force (does not deny ♥s). The hand has to be strong enough to cope with a 3♥ bid by opener, since that may be his most descriptive bid, and this hand is not really strong enough. But it may be the best compromise, if available.

In fact, this hand is nowhere near as strong as it appears some people think it is.... why we can always make 11 tricks is beyond me... what do we rebid over 1♠ with x QJxx AQxxxx Kx?

Now, if mike777 were my partner, I'd seriously consider slam.. but opposite most who post here, and opposite all my partners, I'd be hoping for game.

So if the 2♥ gadget were available, I'd use it but if it were not, I'd opt for 3♦ at imps and 2N at mps.... the opps usually lead ♥s rather than ♣s if the decision is close...

[inquiry]

mikeh, on Apr 5 2007, 05:55 PM, said:

So if the 2♥ gadget were available, I'd use it but if it were not, I'd opt for 3♦ at imps and 2N at mps.... the opps usually lead ♥s rather than ♣s if the decision is close...

and of course, in this problem, 2♥ gadget is not available because 2♥ over 1♦ was "fit jump". i too use the 2♥ gadget but went with 3♦ due to problem constraints.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Apr 5 2007, 05:55 PM, said:

Now, if mike777 were my partner, I'd seriously consider slam.. but opposite most who post here, and opposite all my partners, I'd be hoping for game.

If mike777 were your partner, you would either have a sure slam or be too high at 3♦ depending which mood he was in that day. Tough guess.

Kidding!