[Trudy1959]

I choose to double because i have a bad hand for declaring and a good hand for defending.
- 5♠ seems wrong without any aces, or voids/singletons
- Pass seems wrong because I have defensive values that 2♠ did not show.
- 5♥ is a possible alternative, although only in my most regular partnerships.

Tru

[Apollo81]

Fluffy, on Apr 5 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

Thanks for the replies, at first I though partner had missevaluated his hand, but reading your replies it seems it is mainly bad luck for the duplicated values in ♠, and ♦.

5♠ had no chance.


Partner held:

KQJxx
A9x
x
AQJx

partner doesnt have his 4♣ bid IMO

[ulven]

4C was a really bad bid vs a single raise with that hand.

[jdonn]

ulven, on Apr 5 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

4C was a really bad bid vs a single raise with that hand.

This all seems like good old fashioned resulting to me. What if one of his hearts was a club? Then bidding on by us would still have been wrong most of the time (if clubs are 3-2, or the diamond king is a defensive trick, or if we get 2 heart tricks on defense). If we had a really good 5♠ bid (say king of diamonds in hearts) then 5♠ would be making easily opposite partner's hand. I think both the 4♣ and the 5♠ bid were somewhat reasonable (though I wouldn't have chosen either) and just didn't work, but if anything I blame our hand more since we made the final decisive decision which could have been right but we knew could also have been wrong.

[skjaeran]

jdonn, on Apr 5 2007, 10:57 PM, said:

ulven, on Apr 5 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

4C was a really bad bid vs a single raise with that hand.

This all seems like good old fashioned resulting to me.

Josh, you don't know Ulf - he's no results merchant.

He might have explained better why he thinks 4♣ was a really bad bid, though.

[ulven]

Point taken, Harald.

KQJxx
A9x
x
AQJx

This hand is more defensive oriented than offensive oriented; it may take 11 tricks vs a perfect maximum single raise (with normally only 3-card supp) but it's WAY against the odds.

We could construct reasonable 4C bids when 5S from us would be wrong, the K of diamonds being the deciding factor that prevents 5D from making (with 5S going down), but high-level decisions are problematic since we don't know how the suits break - how many defensive tricks we have in 'our' suits.

A 4C-bid should have 10+ cards in both suits AND be offensive oriented. The actual hand failed on both those accounts. Move a heart to clubs (same hand but 5-2-1-5 shape) as suggested and 5S may make on a non-heart lead or 5D might make. But bidding on is normally wrong. Sure, we can't get them all right but we can play (bid) the percentages.

To make 11 tricks with the hand in question vs a single raise, you'd have to strain yourself to come up with examples. That's a sure sign your choice is off course. A lot of perfectly reasonable 5S bids, will turn out wrong.

But, do keep in mind, that my view of 4C is based on both the minimum and maximum [possible hands] for a single raise in competition. As stated previously, I'd bid 3S with this hand. For people with another set of agreements about 2S vs 3S, 4C may be an OK bid and 5S the wrong choice.

I'm pretty sure, by experience, that those people should reconsider the their agreements/style.

You can also check my March 20th post in my blog on an auction very similar to this one.

[helene_t]

Agree with Apollo, pass would not be forcing to me. I don't think it matters too much for my decision, though. I would seriously consider passing, whether it's forcing or not.

I'm not so fond of partner's 4♣ bid. He has a nice hand but he doesn't want to encourage 5♠ (which was my vote) at this vulnerability. Also, he doesn't have a strong preference for a club lead.

Anyway, maybe my 5♠ was bad even if I can blame some of the missery on partner's 4♣ bid. After all, the King of diamonds makes up for some of the offensiveness of my hand.

[nik1998]

Pass!That s my comment!