[pbleighton]

And should he be?

IMO,his trial shouldn't have taken place, though I don't have any doubt
that he did what he was convicted of. The trial is a clear argument against
one target prosecutors,whatever their title.

OTOH, I have no sympathy for Libby. He was a key part of the lie machine
which got us into Iraq. Plame's outing was disgraceful at best, even though
Fitzgerald couldn't find a criminal case - whether this was because she was
technically not covert (though the head of the CIA confirmed that she was
"covert"), or issues with evidence, we may never know.

Libby's no-defense defense strongly implies a deal. I think he will be pardoned,
but I don't know when.

I don't care much one way or the other whether Bush further degrades himself
by pardoning Libby. In a way, every self-degradation (keeping Gonzales, etc.)
he commits makes it clearer that he'sthe worst President we've ever had.
A pardon would be one more sculptor's masterstroke.

Peter

[hrothgar]

The power to grant pardons and clemency is explicitly granted to the President under Article II, Section 2 of the US Constitution which reads:

"Shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment"

I have mixed feelings about this power. While I can conceive of examples hypothetical examples where I might want a sitting President to have the power to grant a pardon I haven't seen many examples where I thought that a pardon was warranted. I certainly can't point to many current recent examples that I approved of. Many of Clinton's and Bush 1's strike me as aggregious miscarriages of justice. (I think that the Mark Rich pardon was one of the lowest points of the Clinton Presidency). Off hand, the only pardon I can think of that I really have warm fuzzy feelings about was Eugene Debs back during the Harding administration.

As for Libby, I certainly don't think that any kind of pardon is justified.

You shouldn't be allowed to derail a criminal investigation by lying under oath and the have your boss thank you you by pulling your nuts out of the fire. There needs to be real consequences for breaking the law in this manner.

[Al_U_Card]

Will the sun rise in the morning?

[Winstonm]

Don't even talk to me about Bush and Libby - I'm still pissed at Gerald Ford.

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Mar 27 2007, 07:29 PM, said:

Don't even talk to me about Bush and Libby - I'm still pissed at Gerald Ford.

Well I do think his Pardon was a major factor if not the major factor in his defeat. The brutual primary battle with Reagan was also a factor. In any event I think Ford made the right and very tough decision on this one.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Mar 27 2007, 07:45 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Mar 27 2007, 07:29 PM, said:

Don't even talk to me about Bush and Libby - I'm still pissed at Gerald Ford.

Well I do think his Pardon was a major factor if not the major factor in his defeat. The brutual primary battle with Reagan was also a factor. In any event I think Ford made the right and very tough decision on this one.

I have a little stricter stance on this - I think it is time we make "violation of the public trust" a capital offense.

Bet we'd get a whole new set of candidates.

[inquiry]

pbleighton, on Mar 27 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

And should he be?

Yes,

and no

[mike777]

My bet is most of America does not know who Libby is today and in 18 months even less will. Heck they do not know Hillary is running for President or who Betsy Ross is.

[inquiry]

mike777, on Mar 27 2007, 10:57 PM, said:

My bet is most of America does not know who Libby is today and in 18 months even less will. Heck they do not know Hillary is running for President or who Betsy Ross is.

I suspect the people jay leno talks too that gets on camera for being stupid are not "most americans".

[mike777]

inquiry, on Mar 27 2007, 11:06 PM, said:

mike777, on Mar 27 2007, 10:57 PM, said:

My bet is most of America does not know who Libby is today and in 18 months even less will. Heck they do not know Hillary is running for President or who Betsy Ross is.

I suspect the people jay leno talks too that gets on camera for being stupid are not "most americans".

He swears no...he does not cherry pick them....said that for years..

Heck when I went back to school I asked grad students how long it takes for sun to circle the earth and no one eversaid.."sun does not orbit earth." But try your own jay walking poll.