[Gerben42]

Okay so the next tourney I managed to return the favour by making a partner torture bid myself. Let's see it from my partner's side:

Scoring: IMP

---

Partner opens 1NT in second seat and you bid Stayman 2♣. LHO overcalls 3♣ now, partner bids 3♦ and LHO doubles, selfalerting as penalty. Recapping:

Pass 1NT Pass 2♣
3♣ 3♦ Dbl

What's going on?

[whereagles]

Pard couldn't bid 2♦ over LHO's bid, so he bids THREE diams

Bid 4♦ now and pass the ball.. let pard figure out you're trying the moysian major game... LOL

[awm]

Seems to me partner's 3♦ should show a maximum opening bid with a 5-card diamond suit. This is not necessarily what partner actually has of course -- partner may think he is showing both majors, or that 3♦ is just the "I don't have a major" response to stayman.

In any case, it seems like my best call is to pass. If partner has real diamonds I expect a good score from 3♦X. If not, partner is not likely to pass it out.

[cherdano]

Maybe partner is planing a self-SOS XX to show both majors? Seems like a silly plan, but I don't see how it can cost to pass 3♦X and see what happens. If he redoubles, I will return the favour with 4♣.

[bid_em_up]

awm, on Mar 27 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

In any case, it seems like my best call is to pass. If partner has real diamonds I expect a good score from 3♦X. If not, partner is not likely to pass it out.

Really? Afraid to redouble?

[bid_em_up]

cherdano, on Mar 27 2007, 03:48 PM, said:

If he redoubles, I will return the favour with 4♣.

If I mistakenly pass the first time around, I will sit for the XX.

[awm]

The problem with redouble, is that partner could easily interpret it as either of:

"Even though your bid showed diamonds, I am short there, please pick a major or bid 3NT."

"Even though your bid didn't show diamonds, I in fact have diamonds, let's play here."

Taking the action of redoubling should suggest some action by partner, probably the opposite action of the "normal" one (in other words, if his bid was natural, redouble should suggest removing it; if his bid was artificial, redouble should suggest leaving it in).

Since we don't know whether partner's bid showed diamonds and we want partner to take the "normal" action of leaving it in with diamonds and removing without diamonds, I think pass is superior to redouble.

[cherdano]

Bid_em_up, I agree, with my regular partner I would XX 3♦ and expect to be in a 9 or 10-card fit. In a thread named "Partner torturing" I will play it safe and pass.

[bid_em_up]

cherdano, on Mar 27 2007, 03:55 PM, said:

Bid_em_up, I agree, with my regular partner I would XX 3♦ and expect to be in a 9 or 10-card fit. In a thread named "Partner torturing" I will play it safe and pass.

His problem, not mine. I bid my hand.

Adam,

Same thing. You have no reason to assume that partner is making an "off-the-wall" bid here. Whenever I encounter something like this, I prefer to assume that is the opponents who do not know what they are doing (or are jerking us around), and especially if I think partner is competent.

His bid meant "I have diamonds". XX means, you're gonna wish you hadn't doubled. Heck, I am about investigate 6D over the 3D call. Does 3D x'd score more than 6D? You must XX to force RHO's run to 4C.

And I do not agree that XX in this position suggests removing the double, ever. This is not an SOS position.

[mr1303]

I hate it when partner make bids like this.

COuldn't I have a 0 count with both majors here?

Anyway, I'm going to XX this one, and see what happens. If this goes for a million, it's partner's fault for making undiscussed bids.

[Gerben42]

Quote

COuldn't I have a 0 count with both majors here?

Yes, you could.

Since we have a bunch of passers, read in hidden what happens next if you pass.

Spoiler

Passed around to partner who redoubles

[Gerben42]

I was the partner, of course. If I had opened 1NT on a 6-card ♦ I would not have bid it with no hint of either a fit or combined majority of strength.

Since 1NT P 2♣ 3♣ is not agreed (and similar situations are penalty so I think it would have showed a ♣ stack) I bid 3♦ with both majors. Partner didn't "get it" and we scored -1000

That's the danger of a too creative bid, I guess.

[whereagles]

Actually, you have to thank RHO for his dbl, which basically said "I dunno what opener has, but it sure ain't diamonds".

E.g. pard scored zero in table presence

[Free]

Pass is clear imo, partner can make it clear now what he holds. After the RDbl it's clear he doesn't have ♦ so you can't pass that... If p would've had ♦ he'd pass for sure and collect the game bonus.

[dake50]

Free 3D must show 'Ilike this auction' I expect partner has advance cued a D-control for just this hand I have. Cue 4C to show C-control. Can partner SKJxx HAKxx DAx Cxxx?? How would he progress this hand? Great fitting for Majors.

[Codo]

I don´t undestand the XX at all. If he had bid 3 Heart after the double, this had been a clear message or what should 3 Diamond followed by 3 Heart be if not both majors?