[Vilgan]

Playing precision and 14-16 NT, is a new minor still NMF by a passed hand, or simply natural (and hence passable).

Had the following auction come up with opps silent:

P - 1♦ - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♣

It seems like the 2♣ bid (by a passed hand) should be natural. If you have 5 and are like 5/3/3/2, you should just pass in case you push the partnership too high. With 6 you can rebid your suit. With 5 hearts and say... 4-5 clubs, you can bid 2♣, which can be passed, pulled back to diamonds, or pulled back to hearts.

My partner and I hadn't discussed it, but are leaning towards NMF only being biddable by unpassed hands. Just thought I would see if others do this as well, since it wasn't mentioned in description of NMF I looked up earlier.

Thanks for any insight

Eric

[P_Marlowe]

Coming from a SAYC background, I would say
NMF still makes sense, even if bid by a passed
hand, ... you still need a way to ask for 3 card
support, if you happen to have a 5 card mayor.

Opener knows, I am a passed hand, i.e. he can
decide, if he thinks game possible or not, i.e. he
may downgrade his opening bid, if he believes
chances for game are remote.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

NMF makes sense, but if you play xyz, it can be replaced with a NMF checkback.

[Apollo81]

I have seen people play both ways by a PH. I don't think there is a consensus.

[barmar]

I think it's most common that NMF is still on. NMF normally shows at least an invitational hand. If responder was just short of opening he can still have enough to invite.

[Vilgan]

barmar, on Mar 27 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

I think it's most common that NMF is still on. NMF normally shows at least an invitational hand. If responder was just short of opening he can still have enough to invite.

Hrmm, guess the reason I'm debating it being natural is that (at least for us) it is not possible for responder to have an invitational hand opposite that sequence.

P (max of 10)
1♦
1♥
1NT (11-13 balanced)

So at this point, game is not possible.. and hence having a bid which is invitational seems completely pointless. Especially with precision, 2♣ might be the best spot.

For example, if opener is 3244 in shape and responder has 1525 shape.. best spot would be 2 clubs. It should still promise 5 hearts, but it does seem like it ought to be passable or 2♣ becomes impossible to find.

Granted, this is a systemic thing.. since we open all 11's and play a 14-16 NT (when vulnerable at least). Maybe not a great discussion point, was just curious if some people played NMF but only by an unpassed hand.. which it sounds like at least a couple do.

[P_Marlowe]

Vilgan, on Mar 27 2007, 11:59 AM, said:

<snip>
Granted, this is a systemic thing.. since we open all 11's and play a 14-16 NT (when vulnerable at least).
<snip>

Hi,

the main problem with your post:
wrong section of the forum, you stated the
problem in the B/I section, but also mentioned
that you would have the whole thing discussed
in a precision system, ... there is a special section
for this.

With kind regards
Marrlowe