[kenrexford]

pclayton, on Mar 23 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

I think this is a tougher hand than what everyone is letting on. The 6th club is what makes slam a good spot. Without it its hopeless.

I can see 1S - 2C - (2D) -3C - 3S - 4C - 4H - South could take charge with the diamond control but its not easy.

One hand does not prove a point, but...

This is a good example of an auction where pattern bidding is less useful than cuebidding. If one accepts 2♠ as setting trumps (a particularly good idea when a cuebid of their suit is an option when undecided after 2♥), pattern bidding allows showing the stiff diamond but muddies the waters as to the quality of the club honor contribution.

In contrast, consider:

1♠-P-2♣-2♦
2♥-P-2♠(trumps set)-P-
3♣(bypass 2NT -- good trumps; one of top three clubs)-P-3♥(needs diamond control, heart control)-P-
4♣(no third spade honor, not serious -- poor hearts, second top club honor, diamond control)

Notice how nicely this auction progresses. Responder knows Opener's hand nearly exactly, and completely as far as relevant questions are concerned. One unknown is whether Opener has a completely unnecessary third club (a pip); pattern is irrelevant (diamond King works as well as a stiff); as a bonus, Responder knows that the spades are solid between them before even using RKCB.

Slam is quite easily bid. In fact, Responder could confidently bid 6♠ without even using RKCB, except for the problem that Opener might have the diamond Ace or a diamond void. As either would suggest serious interest, however, RKCB is probably useless delay of a completed auction.

[mike777]

I am a bit surprised by so many if not all prefering to rebid 2h on jxxx and not rebid 3clubs. Perhaps 3clubs in their style promises more.

I would prefer to pass this hand in first seat, if I need to play that.

[pclayton]

mike777, on Mar 23 2007, 12:30 PM, said:

I am a bit surprised by so many if not all prefering to rebid 2h on jxxx and not rebid 3clubs. Perhaps 3clubs in their style promises more.

I would prefer to pass this hand in first seat, if I need to play that.

Agree. 2♥ is cheap, but 3♣ is more descriptive.

[kenrexford]

The rebid of 2♥ has multiple benefits.

It is the only route to a 4-4 heart fit possibility.

As a bid below 2♠, it allows those of us who would have 2♠ agree spades to agree spades at the two-level.

It allows true pattern to be established in many events.

3♣ now tends to show a fourth club in many auctions.

[sathyab]

pclayton, on Mar 23 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

I think this is a tougher hand than what everyone is letting on. The 6th club is what makes slam a good spot. Without it its hopeless.

I can see 1S - 2C - (2D) -3C - 3S - 4C - 4H - South could take charge with the diamond control but its not easy.

Yes you need a sixth club for a spade slam, but 5 clubs are enough for a club slam. You should be visualizing 5 spade tricks, 5 clubs, 1 heart and 1 diamond ruff for 12 tricks. All it needs it spades to break 3-2 if partner doesn't have the Jack of spades. Of course if they find a heart lead, you will need some other compensation such as a stronger hert holding or an additional club. But all in all, with the expected Diamond lead, 6c is a great slam, that I'd want to be there all the time.

Oh, BTW with my regular parters, I don't have to bid 2c with only four of them to create a GF when I have 3 spades (Yes GF hands with 3 spades are harder to bid unless you play 1s-2c as showing either a GF in clubs or 3-card spade support with a LR+). So we would be sure partner had a 5-card club suit. And with four clubs and 2 spades and a balanced hand, we play 2nt the old-fashioned way, just GF.

[ArcLight]

1eyedjack, on Mar 23 2007, 01:13 PM, said:

I assume this is an attempt to answer my query in the post immediately preceding.
If so, it does not answer the question, because while I totally agree with the analysis of the meaning of 3♠ in the auction above, no-one bid 1NT in the auction to which my query relates. The auction was
1♠ - 2♣ (GF)
2♥ - ??
My query was to distinguish 2♠ and 3♠ by responder in this position.

1♠ - 2♣
2♥ - ?

2♠ shows 3 spades and sets trumps. Unless you want to end up in 3NT, possible.

3♠ shows 3 very good cards in pards suit (A K x) and a good hand (16+). Gentle slam try.


This is from Mike Lawrences 2/1 CD

[dogsbreath]

hi

ti think 2H is a dreadful bid after the 2d overcall.. Yes, the Hearts might get 'lost' in the remainder of the auction but so will the club fit .. budding 2h on this awful suit leaves you with a problem when lho bounces in diamonds

Rgds Dog

[Fluffy]

raising a 4(3) card suit with 3 cards?, to the 3 level?, are you crazy? (just joking, but that's my point )