[sheepman]

Scoring: IMP

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Swiss Teams, 8 board matches.

1♣ (1♦) P (1♠)
2♥ (2♠) 3♥ (4♠)
6♥ (6♠) ??

Do you agree with 3♥?
Now what do you do?

[mr1303]

Partner hasn't exactly helped us to guess here. If 6H invites a save or is to make, or what I don't know.

FWIW I do agree with 3H.

I think I'll pass. Partner can't expect me to know what to do here.

[pbleighton]

Pass. I've shown my hand.

Peter

[gwnn]

auto pass

partner will probably double, but who am I to do anything from 3♥ onwards?

[jdonn]

I for sure would have bid 4♥ not 3♥. Now I pass, what the heck do I know?

[temp3600]

I would've bid 4♥ instead of 3♥, with the super fits for partner's suits.

[Apollo81]

I'd have bid 4♥, not 3♥.

[awm]

I do not think partner is bidding 6♥ as an advance sacrifice against 5♠. Partner has shown a good hand here. I also don't think opponents are bidding 6♠ to make. The 1♦ overcaller bid only 2♠ at second turn and his partner bid 4♠ which could easily have been intended as a sacrifice. So it seems fairly clear that 6♥ is supposed to be making and 6♠ is a sac. Do I think we can make 7♥? Holding 2-2 in the pointed suits is not exactly ideal shape, and I have basically nothing for values. Partner blasted 6♥ rather than trying for seven. Since I believe this to be a forcing pass auction I will double here.

I agree that 4♥ at second turn would've been a better bid.

[pclayton]

Pard has typically 5-6 for 2♥, right?

I really, really don't like 3♥ then. The double fit makes 4♥ automatic.

But in spite of our previous misbid of 3♥, pard is still crashing into 6♥. I think pard is diving on a distributional monster: void, AKxxx, x, AQJxxxx. He might think he can cash 2 aces against 6♠, but our undisclosed heart and club length says he can't.

I don't think pard has a hand with diamond values; if he wanted to suggest defending, or set up a force, he could have bid 5♦ for instance.

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

[bid_em_up]

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

Pard has typically 5-6 for 2♥, right?

I really, really don't like 3♥ then. The double fit makes 4♥ automatic.

But in spite of our previous misbid of 3♥, pard is still crashing into 6♥. I think pard is diving on a distributional monster: void, AKxxx, x, AQJxxxx. He might think he can cash 2 aces against 6♠, but our undisclosed heart and club length says he can't.

I don't think pard has a hand with diamond values; if he wanted to suggest defending, or set up a force, he could have bid 5♦ for instance.

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

You dont say what you will bid, Phil.

I agree with what you say....I also think its entirely possible we're taking a maximum of 1 trick vs. 6S on Norths distributional freak as well. It sounds as if he is 5-0-6-2 or 5-0-7-1.

I chose to bid, but I clue partner into the double fit with 7♣.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

Doesn't partner know this too?

[pclayton]

bid_em_up, on Mar 18 2007, 10:29 AM, said:

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

Pard has typically 5-6 for 2♥, right?

I really, really don't like 3♥ then. The double fit makes 4♥ automatic.

But in spite of our previous misbid of 3♥, pard is still crashing into 6♥. I think pard is diving on a distributional monster: void, AKxxx, x, AQJxxxx. He might think he can cash 2 aces against 6♠, but our undisclosed heart and club length says he can't.

I don't think pard has a hand with diamond values; if he wanted to suggest defending, or set up a force, he could have bid 5♦ for instance.

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

You dont say what you will bid, Phil.

I agree with what you say....I also think its entirely possible we're taking a maximum of 1 trick vs. 6S on Norths distributional freak as well. It sounds as if he is 5-0-6-2 or 5-0-7-1.

I chose to bid, but I clue partner into the double fit with 7♣.

7 something; doesn't matter.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Mar 18 2007, 10:38 AM, said:

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

Doesn't partner know this too?

Pard might think his rounded aces are cashing. After all, wouldn't we raise to 3♥ with ♥Qxxx and nothing in clubs?

[dake50]

Did partner bounce them into 6S failing? Don't get in his way. Pass, X would have something.

[Impact]

I'm playing imps - I must bid as the problem is that I have 9 cards in partner's long suits - including 4 cards opposite his long C.

On the assumption that he holds something like 4H & 7C or 5H and at least 6C, his solidity in those suits could contribute 0 tricks in defence.

3H was awful: 4H was clearcut with the double fit, as that is what it would imply, whereas 3H could have been bid on HQxxx or similar.

Picture opener with something like void AKxx Ax AKxxxxx (or even make his C solid), or perhaps void AKxxx x AKxxxxx - in which case there could even be a double grand slam swing (!!!). Who knows unless he has 2 cashing tricks in their suits it is going to problematic. He does not know you have C length (in fact your 3H has tended to deny it sensibly) so he will double when he holds what looks like QT in C & H!!

Had you bid 4H over 2S you could pass to let him decide (in case he has those 2 tricks in their suits) but as it is you have to guess first - and should take out insurance (you are unlikely to be more than one down - and the same applies to them!!!).

regards

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 08:42 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 18 2007, 10:38 AM, said:

pclayton, on Mar 18 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

7 something looks like a cheap save against a GAME. Its the -1430 that will lose the match, not the -200 or -500.

Doesn't partner know this too?

Pard might think his rounded aces are cashing. After all, wouldn't we raise to 3♥ with ♥Qxxx and nothing in clubs?

With 4 hearts and no club fit (as opposed to this 5 hearts and 4 clubs) we would have an easy double in that case.

[mikeh]

I echo those who suggest that 4♥ was the better call: given that we didn't need much to bid 1♥, and it is very tough to construct a hand on which we could have passed 1♦ and now jump to game with 4♥s, I think the 4♥ bid would have better clued partner in about the ♥ length...

But, strangely, the 3♥ underbid may actually help me, because partner must have an even more unusual hand for 6♥ than he would have needed had he seen 4♥ from me. This is not a big factor: clearly 6♥ opposite either raise would be a freak-revealing bid.

For those who advocate 7♣ or (as per Phil) say it doesn't matter what we bid, imagine a 5=7 hand: if they lead the wrong Ace, we make 7♥ if our suits play for no losers, as they rate to: while we have nowhere to put our pointed loser in 7♣.

BTW, I find the auction strange, so maybe my constructions are all wrong

[Fluffy]

Double because after all, this shouldn't be forcing pass situation, but the loss of opponents making it doubled is small compared to partner bidding a stupid 7 to make.

[bid_em_up]

Fluffy, on Mar 20 2007, 03:29 AM, said:

Double because after all, this shouldn't be forcing pass situation, but the loss of opponents making it doubled is small compared to partner bidding a stupid 7 to make.

It appears that you fail to appreciate the fact that partner should be at least 5-7 in his suits and at worst is down 3 on a really bad day for -800 vs. their likely making (and doubled in your case) slam.

On good days, partner makes.