[han]

A friend and me were disccussing how the form of scoring would influence our decisions on this hand:

opponents silent:

1H - 1S
3H - ??

---

What would your call be at MPs and at IMPs?

[Halo]

4H

I'm not sure what you were discussing.

[Free]

Always 3NT

[pbleighton]

4H always.

I almost never bid 3NT with an 8 card major suit fit, even at matchpoints.

Peter

[han]

I notice that I didn't do a very good job setting up the poll, could somebody powerful please change the options such that the second differs from the third?

[whereagles]

3NT. Lack of controls is worrisome for 4♥.

[HeartA]

Free, on Mar 17 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

Always 3NT

ditto

[dake50]

Scattered quacks always 3NT.

[Double !]

The issue with this hand, as I see it, is two-fold:

1) playing imps, holding the given hand, which contract rates to be safer, more likely to make?

2) playing matchpoints, which contract, 3NT or 4H, is more likely to make more tricks on average?

dhl

[inquiry]

4!H at both.

[han]

This is very interesting, nobody thinks that the form of scoring matters, but there is no agreement about what is better.. 3NT or 4H.

[skjaeran]

When you have a long suit as a source of tricks, slow tricks are of less worth in a notrump contract, as you'll not be able to set them up and cash them. Quick tricks in the side suits is preferable.

So here I think 4♥ is far superior at IMP's, since the trump suit guarantees me the tempo to set up the necessary tricks in ♦'s and ♠'s. At NT, that might prove impossible. And opps might be in a position to cash 5+ ♣ tricks from the start.

At MP, I might try for 3NT if I was in dire need for a good score. But generally I'd go for the "safe" and normal 4♥.

[mr1303]

I think that my hand rates to be a good hand as declarer, and that involves 3NT. I can imagine there being 4 top losers in both contracts.

3NT isn't a command for partner to pass though is it?

[mcphee]

Not clear to me that I can make 3NT regarless of what form of scoring in use. Is it not possible you could play 3NT going down when 4H is making 5 or even 6? Axx AKJ10xx Axx x looks like a 3H bid that might make 12 tricks to me. It would be nice if I could bid 4D here on the way to 4H.

[pbleighton]

"3NT isn't a command for partner to pass though is it?"

No, but it implies a stiff heart.

Peter

[Apollo81]

4♥ either.

[Winstonm]

I see this as a fairly close decision as partner's 3H rebid should be based on a 6332 pattern - but could also be 7222 or 7321. The thing that stops me from bidding 3N is the club holding. Change the hand slightly to QJxx, Qx, KQ8, Q10xx and I would bid 3N.

With the hand shown, 4H at either form of scoring.

[pclayton]

Nice hand Han.

My reaction is 3N always. They don't always lead a club, and even then pard may have coverage.

Here's why I like 3N:

A. If pard has a semi solid heart suit, we have 6 top tricks already. We'll get one on the lead, and we'll need just a little luck for 2 more.

B. If pard has a broken heart suit, diamonds will likely be a good source of tricks as well, and the chance we are open in clubs is mitigated, but we could be losing 2 heart tricks in 4♥.

C. I don't have a ruffing value.

[bid_em_up]

pbleighton, on Mar 18 2007, 07:54 AM, said:

"3NT isn't a command for partner to pass though is it?"

No, but it implies a stiff heart.

Peter

Just because it implies a stiff heart, doesn't mean that you actually have to have one.

I will choose 3N at either form of scoring, mainly because all of my values are slow. Change at least one of the QJQ combos into an Ace or King, and the choice becomes 4H.

[jdonn]

mcphee, on Mar 18 2007, 07:48 AM, said:

Not clear to me that I can make 3NT regarless of what form of scoring in use. Is it not possible you could play 3NT going down when 4H is making 5 or even 6? Axx AKJ10xx Axx x looks like a 3H bid that might make 12 tricks to me. It would be nice if I could bid 4D here on the way to 4H.

You can (4♦ is a cuebid for hearts to me, partly so 4NT directly over 3♥ can be natural) but why would you want to? Because there is one perfect hand partner can have? It's not even helping them lead that bothers me, I just think he will get to bad slams when partner assumes I have a more suitable hand.

I do agree with your reasoning about what to bid. 3NT is deceptively enticing with the soft cards, but I think construct lots of hands and people will see that more often than not 4♥ is where you want to be.