[mike777]

After this hand my late night pick partner vowed to never play with me again. We had played a few times at night as a pick up partnership. He is self rated as WC.

Is there any legitimate line/lay of the cards to make this hand?

Scoring: MP

P=P=P=1NT
(3C)=3NT=P=P
P

---

Trick one=
8 of clubs, Q.....6....2
Your line of thinking for the hand please.

[goobers]

Play low to the DQ, then lay down your hand, claiming smoothly. Honestly I have no line of play for this... looks beyond bleak. If LHO shows up with DK, that is a blessing, maybe you'll get to run the diamonds and then take a major suit finesse. If he's clairvoyant, maybe he'll duck the K once. I don't think taking a major suit finesse immediately is useful... the diamonds are blocked, and you MUST bring in the diamonds to make this. Dummy has no entry outside, unless opps are obliging.

[mike777]

goobers, on Mar 6 2007, 01:25 PM, said:

Run the DQ, then lay down your hand, claiming smoothly.  (Honestly I have no line of play for this... looks beyond bleak)

Dummy won the first trick, how do I get to my hand, low D to the Q and then what?

[goobers]

Sorry, I was mostly joking when I posted that.

Edited now with a semi line of play.

Another edit: Maybe you can play for more misdefense. If a major suit finesse works, you have 4 tricks in. If the DK is onside with Kxx, maybe you can run the diamonds through and he'll hold up the K until the third round, letting you score your diamonds.

[bid_em_up]

mike777, on Mar 6 2007, 01:17 PM, said:

After this hand my late night pick partner vowed to never play with me again. We had played a few times at night as a pick up partnership. He is self rated as WC.

Is there any legitimate line/lay of the cards to make this hand?

Scoring: MP

P=P=P=1NT
(3C)=3NT=P=P
P

---

Trick one=
8 of clubs, Q.....6....2
Your line of thinking for the hand please.

I wouldn't worry too much about what someone who bids 3N on these cards said.

If LHO has 7 clubs, there are legitimate lines of play. There are also a couple of lines if he only has 6 clubs as long as he holds the diamond K as well.

If LHO has only 6 clubs and he does not hold the diamond K, it would have to be stiff in RHO's hand in order to make.

Almost all of these lines require playing a spade at trick 2, I think. But I havent looked closely at it, so could be wrong.

[ArcLight]

Mike,

Maybe the WC player may have been annoyed that you bid 15-17 1NT with 18 HCP? I like his raise to game with 7 HCP, 2 of which are the Qx in the opps long suit.

Besides, If he is WC then whats he doing playing with you

How hard is it for experts to get into games against experts?
(I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert - and neither are some of the ones I play against )


There is a possible Blockage in Dimes as well. Better hope LHO has it, or taht Dimes are 7-1.

Lead a dime from Dummy.
If East wins with no more ♣ you are ok

If west wins you are OK

1♣
4♦
1♠
1♥

[goobers]

bid_em_up, on Mar 6 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

If LHO has only 6 clubs and he does not hold the diamond K, it would have to be stiff in RHO's hand in order to make.

Wait, how does a stiff K in LHO help you? Diamonds are blocked, as long as they don't give you your spade entry, you're still stuck.

[goobers]

Lol. Maybe both major suit finesses work, the SK drops doubleton, and the DK is onside.

There, a legitimate line. Hook the SQ, hook the HQ, cash SA dropping SK, run the DQ. It also can't work since RHO has spade length. Oh well, I give up.

I need to stop talking and let some good players actually answer the question

[mikeh]

I would play a low ♠ to the Q: we need some major winners eventually anyway, and we'd like to be in our hand to tackle the ♦ suit.

If LHO wins, then we have a late entry to dummy with the ♠J (which is why we play a ♠ to the Queen rather than run the J or lead to the 10)

If LHO wins, then he cannot lead a ♣ since RHO has no more than 2♣s. So he either leads a major, which we win in hand, winning the ♠A if that is his choice of poison.

If he leads a ♦, we are at a crossroads. We can play for the K onside or a stiff K offside and it seems that it has to be best to pop the A. After all, if ♦s are 3-2 with the K onside, we are going to make this on a ♥ hook, and if the ♦ is stiff offside, we are making it on the same hook..see below.

If the K appears on our right (stiff), we hook the ♥Q, cash the ♥A and the top 2 ♦s, the high ♠s ending in dummy and exit a ♦ to LHO who must give us the second ♣ trick. Wow, what a combination of cards we need for that to work

But popping the A has to be correct. If the ♦k fails to appear, then I'd play another one, expecting to go down when RHO wins and plays a second ♣... but if LHO wins, then as long as ♦s are 3-2 or the 9 is stiff, I will make 4♦s, 2♠, 1♣ and a ♥ hook.

If the ♠ Q wins at trick 2: I don't believe that many would duck from Kx or Kxx... I'd lead the ♦Q and duck whether covered or not. If LHO wins the stiff K... I am in trouble (again.. heck, I was in trouble when dummy hit... 3N was a bit 'brave'). So I will ignore that, just as I will ignore the result when RHO wins the ♦Q and returns a ♣

[goobers]

mikeh, on Mar 6 2007, 01:49 PM, said:

If the ♠ Q wins at trick 2: I don't believe that many would duck from Kx or Kxx... I'd lead the ♦Q and duck whether covered or not. If LHO wins the stiff K... I am in trouble (again.. heck, I was in trouble when dummy hit... 3N was a bit 'brave'). So I will ignore that, just as I will ignore the result when RHO wins the ♦Q and returns a ♣

These exact thoughts ran through my mind when I first saw the hand... does that make me an expert?

[inquiry]

I will assume north is your partner. He is quite a bit short of his 3NT bid, so perhaps he should not throw stones.

A few thoughts here. Even if the ♦ hook wins, we may not have but 4♦ tricks. Worse yet, if the diamond hook wins WE ARE FORCED TO DUCK, or else block the suit. So we have to assume only 4♦ tricks.

With 4♦ ane 1♣, we need four tricks in the majors. This could come from 2 in each, or 3♠ and the ♥Ace. Since WEST only will hold 6 clubs, ...

BEST chance to make this against competent defenders.
1) Duck first trick in both hands. Win club continuation at trick 3, hoping hook loses (if WEST covers, the suit is blocked).

2) Try for 4D, 3S, 1C, 1H.

For this to work, the diamond finessee has to be off side (else suit blocks). Since once you duck a club you would not be able to duck a diamond to WEST should he cover the diamond honor.

However, I suggest at the table a different play. Based upon the following issues. 1) How many clubs does WEST have? He passed initially, and then, after allowing you and your partners to describe your hands (partner's pass, your 1NT), now he preempts 3♣. In the long run, this is a losing strategy, let's hope he doesn't get away with it. No good player would bid this way.

If West has 7 clubs then EAST will have only one. But if his one club was the SIX, then WEST lead the 8 from AJT98xx. That, to say the least, seems highly unlikely. The lead would be the JACK. OF course from the 8 before we saw East's card we already suspected he had lead from a six card suit. This means we must keep EAST off the lead (at all cost)... This is one reason to duck the first trick in both hands, to break their communication.

Sadly, this is matchpoints and if both ♠ is right, and WEST is a bad player, you can do better. We are basing our opinion on WEST on 1) bidding and 2) lead at trick one.

East has made a duffer bridge bid (pass then preempt after I have limited my shape and strenght), and the opening lead seems to be a funky honest fourth best lead from somethong like AJ98xx, AJT8xx, AT98xx. Form these I would lead 9, J, T. So I am going to give EAST a chance to go wrong. Therefore, instead of ducking first club in dummy, I will win the queen and take an immediate spade hook. If that loses, I am going to rely on WEST to return a club. Instead if that wins, I am going to lead teh diamond jack and duck whenever WEST covers, (I hope it is the second round, not the first). The anticipate yet again a lead from the club, to garner an extra trick (4D, 2C, 3S, 1H).

So the modest plan, such that it is, if the spade hook loses, rely on WEST to break the communications with EAST by leading a spade. If it wins, hope the diamond king is with WEST and he ends up giving me a gift club trick for an overtrick.

If east has the king of diamonds there is no legitimate play for this contract short of ducking the first trick and playing EAST also for the spade king.

[jtfanclub]

Duck the first club- now it doesn't matter whether LHO has 6 or 7. Presuming the A and another club (nothing is better), start the diamonds off with the J, then the T.

Unless the defender is kind enough to give me another entry...ah, that's it. Suppose RHO wins the finesse, and returns the diamond. You run the diamonds off. On the last diamond, RHO has to keep either 3 spades and 2 hearts or 2 spades and 3 hearts. If he keeps 2 spades, you can drop a heart (keeping 3 spades and 2 hearts), finess the spade to the queen, cash the A, spade T to the J, and finesse the heart. If he discards a spade, (keeping 3 hearts and 2 spades), finesse the heart, heart seven to the 8, and finesse the spade.

This assumes that...
1) One of the opponents signals count correctly (so you can figure out what RHO has left).
2) LHO has no more than 2 hearts, or at least keeps no more than 2 hearts.
3) LHO bid 3 clubs on AJTxxxx of clubs and nothing else.

But it is an honest line of play, and if you know your opponents...

[han]

Not an easy hand at all, I agree with Ben's bold analysis.

Does Roth-Stone use a 16-18 notrump range?

[Al_U_Card]

I am thinking that he dumped you before you dumped him......you did say he was self-declared world-crass?

At mp, with 7 hcp....take the plus. At imps, bid 3D and let pard decide. 15 (possible) opposite 7 with the good hand behind you.....maybe this was all part of his evil design.....

Do you know why he did not make a bid initially?

[cherdano]

I would have ducked the first trick.

[mikeh]

cherdano, on Mar 6 2007, 03:51 PM, said:

I would have ducked the first trick.

I admit I succumbed to the usual (for me) read-a-post reaction of accepting the play to the first trick.

Ducking is far from clear, however. We do have every reason to suspect a 6-2♣ break, but that doesn't mean that the duck is the winning play.

1stly, if the ♦ K is on my left, and not stiff, we prevail by winning the 1st trick and we are in trouble if we duck. They clear the ♣ suit and we cannot establish and run the ♦s unless W has the stiff ♠K!

If the ♦ K is on our right, they still clear ♦s and, when rho wins the ♦K, he leads the major in which he lacks the K. Since in this scenario we need 4 major suit tricks, we need rho to hold the ♠K. The ♥ hook doesn't gain us enough tricks. So if LHO has the ♠K, we are down if we duck the ♣.

Or, what if RHO, when in with the ♣, switches to a ♥ high spot: the permutations get complex, depending on the ♥ break, the location of the ♦ King, the location of the ♠K, which card we play on the ♥ switch, etc.

Without more work than I am prepared to do, my estimate is that winning the first ♣ on dummy and taking an immediate hook of the ♠Q is the best line: it requires little more than the K♦ onside plus it wins when the ♦K is stiff offside. But I think it is close and I would not be surprised to learn that ducking both worked at the table and is the higher percentage play

[mike777]

Hannie, on Mar 6 2007, 02:58 PM, said:

Not an easy hand at all, I agree with Ben's bold analysis.

Does Roth-Stone use a 16-18 notrump range?

1) Ya so did my regular partner who kibitzed, who has been yammering at me about this hand all day. I just did not see it at the table, so good lesson hand for me. Great comments by all thanks.
2) Ya. They pass most 13 hcp hands in first and second seat. So you can just open one and rebid 1nt with 14-15. Of course you need to protect more in third and 4th seat.

[mike777]

BTW on this hand, clubs 6-2, no one had a stiff, rho had K of D and LHO had K of H and S. Still Ben's and others thinking on track.