[Flame]

I am trying to come up with the best support structure to my 1♠ opening which show 4+♠ which could be balance, 6 card suit or 2 suiter normal or canape, 9-15 hcp.
I have been trying some structures trying to be both contructive and destructive for my oponents. i would especially like to distiguege between 4 card support and 3 card support.
some componenets i tried are
using 2H to show support GI, 2S for weaker support.
using 2H to show 4 card support, 2S for 3 card support.
using 2C as a realy which include 3 card support GI.
using 2S as premptive could be 0 hcp, partner move only with super hand.
using 3 level bids to show kinds of 4 card support.
unfortunently i cant fit those componenets into one structure that i feel great about.
The best i feel about is
1NT - nf could have 3 cards balance support. (we dont want to use forcing 1nt since we open 1S with some 4 spade blance hands)
2S - premptive either 3 card not so bal or 4 card balance.
2H- 4 cards GI
2C - relay could be GI support.
3 level bids to show 4 cards premprtive or mix raizes.
using this structure, there is a dilemawhat to bid with 3 card balance support either 1NT or 2S (or pass) i think i tend to bid 2S with weaker hands and 1NT with stronger hands, the resson is 2S say we dont have game on value only continue with max and shape we cant play 3NT, while over 1NT we might still reach 3NT since partner will always continue having 14-15 hcp.
So say i have a 10 hcp 3442 i think 1NT will be better, at worse will play 1NT with 8 card fit both balanced.
Will be happy to hear your thoughts on this cause i really not sure.

[gwnn]

I'm thinking maybe:

1♠-1NT=NF (of course can be made on 3 card support)
1♠-2NT=4 card good raise
1♠-2,3,4♠=partner pass please if at all possible, non cooperative. (2♠ can be made on 0 hcp 3145)
1♠-2♥=3 card good raise (with shape) {maybe 4 card good raise without shape?}
1♠-2♦=♥♥♥ weak or ♥ inv+
1♠-2♣=general inquiry
1♠-3x=4-card fit jmp, opener might jump to game if suitable hand

with 1♥ the same can be employed only 2NT is spade fit jmp and 2♠ is 4 card good raise?

your example of 10 hcp 3442 could be put in 1NT or 2♣ too in this structure, depends on the structure of 2♣.

[hrothgar]

gwnn, on Mar 7 2007, 01:59 AM, said:

I'm thinking maybe:

1♠-1NT=NF (of course can be made on 3 card support)
1♠-2NT=4 card good raise
1♠-2,3,4♠=partner pass please if at all possible, non cooperative. (2♠ can be made on 0 hcp 3145)
1♠-2♥=3 card good raise (with shape) {maybe 4 card good raise without shape?}
1♠-2♦=♥♥♥ weak or ♥ inv+
1♠-2♣=general inquiry
1♠-3x=4-card fit jmp, opener might jump to game if suitable hand

with 1♥ the same can be employed only 2NT is spade fit jmp and 2♠ is 4 card good raise?

your example of 10 hcp 3442 could be put in 1NT or 2♣ too in this structure, depends on the structure of 2♣.

Here's what I'd recommend

1N = Clubs or Strong + balanced
2♣ = xfer to Diamonds
2♦ = xfer to Diamonds
2♥ = Good raise to 2♠
2♠ = Value raise
2NT = 4+ Card support, game invite+
3♣ = Fit showing (3 Spades, 6 Clubs, non-forcing)
3♦ = Fit showing (3 Spades, 6 Diamonds, non-forcing)
3♥ = Fit showing (3 Spades, 6 Hearts, non-forcing)
3♠ = Value raise

I'll note in passing that if you switch to an xfer opening bid, you get to play all this PLUS use 1♠ as a relay

Of course, that would mean that you're using a destructive method

[jtfanclub]

Flame, on Mar 6 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

I am trying to come up with the best support structure to my 1♠ opening which show 4+♠ which could be balance, 6 card suit or 2 suiter normal or canape, 9-15 hcp.

I have to ask...

So you open 1♠ what, 40% of the time? I wouldn't worry about being destructive- that opening is plenty destructive enough.

I'm a strong believer that you should base a bid on whatever is the most common hand type. The most common one here should be a balanced 9-15 count, so why not base it on that? Assuming you don't care about GCC:

1NT: Up to 12 hcp, denies 4 spades. May be passed.
2C: 12+ hcp, Stayman variant, asking about 3/4 hearts and 5/6 spades.
Includes invitational hands with a minor.
2D: 'Transfer' to 2H, includes weak hands with a minor. 2S is decline (6 spades, <3 hearts), 2NT is super-accept.
2H: Establishes spades as trumps, 1 round force, GF unless opener has the 9-12 balanced hand (which responds 2S).
2S: Pre-emptive.
2NT: Insta-Slam ask, Jacoby style responses.
3C/3D/3H: Choice-Of-Games, or Splinter.

I don't think it's useful to have a whole bunch of bids showing how many spades responder has, not with a bid that doesn't show all that much more than 13 cards.

[glen]

Hrothgar, very nice structure. I've wonder if it might be better to play something like:

2NT = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♣s, forcing just to 3♣)
3♣ = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♦s, forcing just to 3♦)
3♦ = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♥s, forcing to just 3♥)
3♥= 4+♠s, GI+

[hrothgar]

officeglen, on Mar 7 2007, 02:27 AM, said:

Hrothgar, very nice structure. I've wonder if it might be better to play something like:

2NT = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♣s, forcing just to 3♣)
3♣ = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♦s, forcing just to 3♦)
3♦ = Fit showing (3+♠s, 6♥s, forcing to just 3♥)
3♥= 4+♠s, GI+

I prefer the original structure for a couple reasons:

First: This structure uses transfer bids from 2NT -> 3♦. The transfers place a lot less pressure on the opponents. Furthermore, I'm not sure how many bids that you're want to multiplex in an immediate 2NT that couldn't be forced through a 1NT response.

Second: You have no bidding space available for different types of trials following you're 3♥ response. For all intents and purposes, 3♥ is a range ask and I don't think that range asks are particularly effective for suit contracts. (Hell, I don't like them in NT contracts)

[Flame]

It seems normal to bid to the 3 level with 4 card support but is it wise ?
We normally have 8-9 card fit, most of the time the opponenets will have thier 8-9 fit, according to the law they should let us play in 3S, so as i see it we help them when we bring ourself to 3S voluntarly, we dont let them mistake.
If we only bid to the 2 level they might mistake bidding 3 when they dont have enough or not bidding 3 when they do have enough. And even if they choose right we still have the last chance to bid 3S if we wish.
I think this is a mistake after a 1S opening, i think you should try to be in the 2 level and get to the 3 level only when ur stronge enough or shapey enough.
All this ofcourse reveresed over 1H opening when pushing to 3H make them choose to bidv 3S or pass and might get them to mistake there.