[goobers]

It sounds like it should be; partner has confirmed a minimum, so 3S seems to serve no purpose as an invite, you'd be bidding the same values twice.

[fred]

Jlall, on Feb 23 2007, 10:27 PM, said:

hate to disagree with Fred but I also think 3S is forcing in 1 way NMF. I may be mistaken, I haven't played this convention in a while.

You are probably right.

If 2NT is the only invitational bid (or especially if there is no invitational bid) there is more to be said for Pass.

My judgment suggests that this is not a notrump hand. So over 2NT (assuming inv), if partner bids 3NT, it feels like (to me at least) that you should bid 4S.

If I bid 2NT (assuming inv) and partner passed (which he should be allowed to do) I think that will be wrong (versus 3S) more often than not. This is a strike against 2NT.

But I think the most important lesson of this hand is that you should consider bidding again despite point count considerations. Whether or not your system allows you to make an effective invitational call is another matter.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mike777]

What is the range of the 1nt rebid?
1) 11-13
2)14-15
3) other?

It seems knowing that will help us know that the 2s minimum is at the bottom of the range.

[goobers]

Oh sorry. 1NT was 12-14.

2S is 12 or a bad 13.

And thanks everyone for your replies.

In these forums, I see a lot of people post example hands that partner could have for his/her bidding, but how do you do this at the table without taking excessive amounts of time?

My partner could be 3-3-5-2, 3-3-4-3, 3-2-4-4 (possibly some others, I suppose), and how can you make a good decision on whether game is a good chance or not, given that the high cards could be anywhere?

[joshs]

Jlall, on Feb 23 2007, 05:27 PM, said:

hate to disagree with Fred but I also think 3S is forcing in 1 way NMF. I may be mistaken, I haven't played this convention in a while.

There actually isn't a uniform treatment of NMF.

In Washington Standard, for instance, 1m-1M-1N-2om (NMF)-2M doesn't show a max or a min, 3M would have been an illegal bid (illegal in that it has no meaning), since the way to start slam tries in either minor is by bidding NMF first. So in Washington Standard, 1m-1M-1N-2om-2M-3M is just INV (there is no good way to have a slam INV auction here if opener is balanced).

I think in Pavlick and Root that 3M is a slam try like you claimed. I just don't think there are any overwhelming majority treatment.

[mike777]

goobers, on Feb 23 2007, 06:09 PM, said:

Oh sorry. 1NT was 12-14.

2S is 12 or a bad 13.

And thanks everyone for your replies.

In these forums, I see a lot of people post example hands that partner could have for his/her bidding, but how do you do this at the table without taking excessive amounts of time?

My partner could be 3-3-5-2, 3-3-4-3, 3-2-4-4 (possibly some others, I suppose), and how can you make a good decision on whether game is a good chance or not, given that the high cards could be anywhere?

thanks,

Not sure how we, responder with a 9LTC hand are supposed to bid game across from a bad 13pt balanced hand. Seems pretty tough.

[HeartA]

goobers, on Feb 23 2007, 05:33 PM, said:

It sounds like it should be; partner has confirmed a minimum, so 3S seems to serve no purpose as an invite, you'd be bidding the same values twice.

I don't agree here. "minimum" 2S shows is a range (12-14, say). You can still invite, "pd, if your hand is not dead minimum, please bid game"
I would bid 3S or 4S, depending on the score or mood. Pass is certainly not a choice.

[mike777]

HeartA, on Feb 24 2007, 03:45 AM, said:

goobers, on Feb 23 2007, 05:33 PM, said:

It sounds like it should be;  partner has confirmed a minimum, so 3S seems to serve no purpose as an invite, you'd be bidding the same values twice.

I don't agree here. "minimum" 2S shows is a range (12-14, say). You can still invite, "pd, if your hand is not dead minimum, please bid game"
I would bid 3S or 4S, depending on the score or mood. Pass is certainly not a choice.

Strongly disagree, 2s cannot be decent 13 given 1nt=12-14

[HeartA]

mike777, on Feb 24 2007, 03:50 AM, said:

HeartA, on Feb 24 2007, 03:45 AM, said:

I don't agree here.  "minimum" 2S shows is a range (12-14, say).  You can still invite, "pd, if your hand is not dead minimum, please bid game"
I would bid 3S or 4S, depending on the score or mood. Pass is certainly not a choice.

Strongly disagree, 2s cannot be decent 13 given 1nt=12-14

OK, I was sleepy when wrote that post. I would go to game directly. 11 count with 10s after Js, and Q9 in pd's suit, it worths 12 count, a full opening hand.