[jillybean]

1♣ (P) 1♥ X
?

---

After ops double implying ♠ is it best to bid 1♠ or 1nt?


tyia
jb

[firmit]

With support doubles I would consider redbl showing 3 card support in hearts.
1C - p - 1H - X
XX

If suppX not an option, I'd bid 1NT.

Opps got spade, no doubt, so showing heart support somewhat important. 1NT and 2H are both perfectly logical - I would say it's a matter of preference.

[hrothgar]

I think that a number of people would make a redouble with your hand.
Others would argue in favor of a pass...
Still others would consider a 2♥ raise.

I prefer all of these bids to 1♠

[jillybean]

Support doubles? Some people love em, some say don’t play em.
What are the pro’s and cons?

[hotShot]

jillybean2, on Feb 17 2007, 06:57 PM, said:

Support doubles? Some people love em, some say don’t play em.
What are the pro’s and cons?

Taking the simplest example:
1x-1y-x
could be negative showing the other 2 suits (with or without limited HCP range) or
it could be support showing one card less than needed for a raise.

You will realize that the support situation will not occur as often as the negativ dbl situation and you are saying much less over your hand.

The problem is you cannot play both, and if you decide to play one style, you have no bid to show the other hand.

Now in your case:
1♣-p-1♥-X
?
It is unlikely that you want to show both unbid suits, so you can use redbl as artificial bid to show support in ♥, because if you bid ♠ it is unlikely that you have 5 cards there and you can bid NT with stopper in the unbid suits.

[blackshoe]

Pro: they allow differentiation between 3 card and 4 card support, very important in competition
Con: when you first start playing them, it's easy to forget you *are* playing them. And you give up the natural meanng of X or XX, of course.

Personally, I think think it's a usefull convention.

[Winstonm]

JB, I believe there are valid arguments of any number of calls on this hand.

Pass: minimum opening without a good fit and poor shape.
1S: Gets the spade suit in just in case there is a fit - some of this depends on how reliable the opps double can be taken.
1N: This yields in one bid the shape and strength of the hand - never a real bad idea.
Redouble: support redouble showing 3 hearts - there is a case but my personal belief is that the support double and redouble should not be automatic, but rather show 3-card support and a reason to bid: Take this hand instead: AKxx, Axx, xx, Jxx. Hard, fast cards and a ruffing value - although minimum, still a reason to bid.
There are those who would dispute my view of support doubles, with equally reasonable explanations - it is a choice of what you find best for you.

My personal preference here is for pass - although that does risk being shut out if LHO preempts when we have a heart partscore. I would be more likely to pass at imps and bid 1N at MPs, as at MPs the first one to bid 1N ususally wins. But the quality of the competition really does make a difference - I have bid 1N on these hand types only to find out we had a 4/4 spade fit and my RHO had doubled on a 14-count with 5 clubs.

[Elianna]

jillybean2, on Feb 17 2007, 08:57 AM, said:

Support doubles? Some people love em, some say don’t play em.
What are the pro’s and cons?

As others have said:

pros: distinguishing between 3 and 4 card support.
cons: Many people don't discuss followups, so the auction after the support double is unclear. Also, you can't find, say, your spade fit after the auction 1m-1H (2m)-x.

Adam and I play takeout doubles in support double situations, but we DO play support redoubles.

[fred]

If you are not playing support RDBLs you should certainly Pass.

You barely have an opening bid. You should not commit your side to getting further involved in the auction. If you can make anything your partner will let you know soon enough.

Be happy that your opponents has relieved you of the obligation of rebidding.

If you play support RDBLs and you play they are obligatory then you have to RDBL.

If you play support RDBLs and you play that are not obligatory then you should Pass (for the same reasons that you should Pass if you are not playing support RDBLs).

Usually I include "in my opinion" when offering a bridge opinion, but not this time

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[blackshoe]

fred, on Feb 17 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

Usually I include "in my opinion" when offering a bridge opinion, but not this time

ROFL! Fair enough.

[MickyB]

I much prefer 1NT to show 18-19 in this sequence. Why bid again on a weak NT without support? It's both the worst hand you could have and the most common hand to have, you are best off out of the auction and leaving it up to partner.

[FrancesHinden]

Please remember that agreeing to play "support doubles" does NOT mean that redouble in this sequence shows 3-card support, and you can't assume it does.

Personally I play 1NT as 3-card support (NF), redouble as strong, and pass as penalties or nothing better to bid.

But apart from that, what Fred said.

[helene_t]

Support doubles at the 1-level are nice if you play a 15-17 1NT since you don't have to bid with a 12-14 bal.

At the 2-level I still like to play them, allthough
1m-(p)-1♥-(2 other m)
dbl
could also be used to show a 4-card spades. I don't know which is better I just play support doubles all-through for consistency. And of course, you might want to use the double as penalty if you play against irresponsible opps and need a swing.

If playing a 12-14 1NT you may want to use the 2-level support double to show 15-17 bal with a doubleton in partner's suit.

But this was about support redoubles which is somewhat different. I don't see any disadvantage although Frances' scheme looks interesting.

[mikeh]

Jlall, on Feb 19 2007, 10:39 AM, said:

fred, on Feb 17 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

If you are not playing support RDBLs you should certainly Pass.

Completely agree with this statement.

me too

I would also pass when playing support redoubles. I recognize that there are those who claim that the pass would, for all time, deny 3♥s. However, the purpose of redoubling to show 3♥s is to better place partner in the competitive auction to come: you are encouraging partner to compete, especially if he has 5♥s. Yet your hand is so appallingly weak and shapeless that you would really prefer partner to have values if he were to bid again. Remember, you have already opened the bidding, so partner is going to play you for at least this strength if you pass... that 'extra' ♥ is offset by that extra weakness so don't feel you have left anything unsaid.

If you play that pass merely shows no reason to bid, then it is perfect here: reserve the support redouble for a better hand: say Kxx Axx xx KQxxx 12 hcp but a good 12 happy to hear partner compete on decent minimums with 5♥s or 4♣s.

[jillybean]

Thanks all, helpful comments. Where is that pass card , I need reminding that I dont HAVE to bid