[kenrexford]

I'm not saying that 4♠ is a bad call. However, I'm not sure that I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that opening 4♠ gives the opponents the last guess.

If their guess is to pass, then they may well have made that choice after a 1♠ opening. If their choice is to bid somehow at the five-level in a minor (bidding one or 4NT takeout perhaps), then we may have the last guess.

[Al_U_Card]

Opps, schmopps....2 defensive quick tricks, rebid and rule of 20.....especially the Heart Axxx, I am opening 1S and who knows, our game might just be 4H which we will never find if I open 4S.....

[inquiry]

This hand is not good enough of namyats. that is a fact. For the "swan" bidders who just bid what you think (hope) you can make, nothing is too wrong with a direct 4♠ bid. It is just that my partner will never play me for first or second round control in EVERY SUIT and such a good hand if I open 4♠ NON-VUL on this hand. So for me, 4♠ doesn't seem like a good choice.

[pclayton]

inquiry, on Feb 15 2007, 09:26 AM, said:

This hand is not good enough of namyats. that is a fact. For the "swan" bidders who just bid what you think (hope) you can make, nothing is too wrong with a direct 4♠ bid. It is just that my partner will never play me for first or second round control in EVERY SUIT and such a good hand if I open 4♠ NON-VUL on this hand. So for me, 4♠ doesn't seem like a good choice.

I agree; this is the 'biggest' risk of 4♠.

Still, it looks like a classic 7-4 preempt to me.

(Al: Its very unlikely hearts will be the correct strain on this hand).

[SoTired]

inquiry, on Feb 15 2007, 12:26 PM, said:

... For the "swan" bidders who just bid what you think (hope) you can make, nothing is too wrong with a direct 4♠ bid. ....

Was there a particular reason you chose to single out Swan for insult? BBO has nobody that would bid this way?

[inquiry]

SoTired, on Feb 15 2007, 12:40 PM, said:

inquiry, on Feb 15 2007, 12:26 PM, said:

... For the "swan" bidders who just bid what you think (hope) you can make, nothing is too wrong with a direct 4♠ bid. ....

Was there a particular reason you chose to single out Swan for insult? BBO has nobody that would bid this way?

Yes, I hate everyone who plays on the SWAN site.. next time, I will go after the OKBridge players.....

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
llllllllllllllllllll
9999999999999
9999999999999
33333333333
ssssssssssssss


(sotired read down below).....



























Oh, and SoTired, a hand with a SEVEN CARD suit and an FOUR card suit has a nickname. I guess you don't know it, so have a look at this link....

Colorful Bridge Slang

[SoTired]

OK - never knew that... shame on me. I apologize.

[Apollo81]

4♠

I don't think this is too strong for a 2nd seat white preempt.

[Al_U_Card]

pclayton, on Feb 15 2007, 12:28 PM, said:

(Al: Its very unlikely hearts will be the correct strain on this hand).

I do not know the statistical likelihood of pard holding 4 or more hearts, but in 2nd seat, I only have one opp to preempt vs one pard to preempt.

There was mention of the risk of the opps finding their minor suit fit......if they have a fit, so do we, so I am just as likely to have an 8 card fit in S as in H? Maybe not, but the 1S bid doesnt hurt my chances of finding out, does it?

I respectfully acquiesce to Ely Culbertson, but think that this is the one orientation (7S and 4H) that might be the exception to the "rule".

[inquiry]

Al_U_Card, on Feb 15 2007, 02:21 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 15 2007, 12:28 PM, said:

(Al: Its very unlikely hearts will be the correct strain on this hand).

I do not know the statistical likelihood of pard holding 4 or more hearts, but in 2nd seat, I only have one opp to preempt vs one pard to preempt.

There was mention of the risk of the opps finding their minor suit fit......if they have a fit, so do we, so I am just as likely to have an 8 card fit in S as in H? Maybe not, but the 1S bid doesnt hurt my chances of finding out, does it?

I respectfully acquiesce to Ely Culbertson, but think that this is the one orientation (7S and 4H) that might be the exception to the "rule".

Al, if you are forced to ruff a minor in the 7-4 hand (when playing in 4-4 heart fit), there are plenty of hands where the spade suit can get stranded. Playing in spades, this is not a problem. This is why swans often play better in the 7 card suit instead of in the 4-4 fit.

[Al_U_Card]

np It will only get stranded when it is not the trump suit but that would be at a level lower than 4S and not higher because of the opening preempt. The other conditions, for this particular suit situation, will keep me from opening 4S.

[kgr]

On some of the tables the bidding started:
(2H)-???
2H: Muiderberg (5-card H & 4+card m; weak)
What do you bid now?

[jtfanclub]

kgr, on Feb 15 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

On some of the tables the bidding started:
(2H)-???
2H: Muiderberg (5-card H & 4+card m; weak)
What do you bid now?

4♥. If they start off with a minor, my partner gets 3 ruffs on the board. If they start with a trump (or a spade) I set up the spades.

I need too much from partner to consider slam, and if I play in a 5-4 when I had a 7-3 available, well, I guess I don't care much.

[kgr]

jtfanclub, on Feb 15 2007, 11:14 PM, said:

kgr, on Feb 15 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

On some of the tables the bidding started:
(2H)-???
2H: Muiderberg (5-card H & 4+card m; weak)
What do you bid now?

4♥. If they start off with a minor, my partner gets 3 ruffs on the board. If they start with a trump (or a spade) I set up the spades.

I need too much from partner to consider slam, and if I play in a 5-4 when I had a 7-3 available, well, I guess I don't care much.

It's RHO opening 2H

[inquiry]

kgr, on Feb 15 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

On some of the tables the bidding started:
(2H)-???
2H: Muiderberg (5-card H & 4+card m; weak)
What do you bid now?

4♠

[Al_U_Card]

Now that's a whole different smoke....and I heartily concur with 4S (1S now being insufficient...lol)

[pclayton]

It is a different animal now.

3 and 4♠ are strong bids, not weak. I'm fine with 2♠.

[pbleighton]

"It is a different animal now.

3 and 4♠ are strong bids, not weak. I'm fine with 2♠. "

3S is a huge hand.

To me, 4S sounds like the hand I have, lots of distribution and not a lot of points, if pd has some help I can make.

Peter

[inquiry]

2♠ makes it a lot easier to find their minor fit (of course openers partner may have BOTH minors, so he can bid 4NT over 4♠ to find it anyway). Bid 4♠ and let them make the last guess. This is quite different from pass to you, and then you have to bid. 4♠ preempts your own auction when RHO is weak.

ALSO, just for the record, I read 2H as mulderberg.. which I take not as "weak" but rather minimum opening hand with hearts and a minor. If 2♥ is preemptive (less than opening hand) with major/minor, I will change my bid to 2♠.

[han]

inquiry, on Feb 15 2007, 05:30 PM, said:

2♠ makes it a lot easier to find their minor fit (of course openers partner may have BOTH minors, so he can bid 4NT over 4♠ to find it anyway). Bid 4♠ and let them make the last guess. This is quite different from pass to you, and then you have to bid. 4♠ preempts your own auction when RHO is weak.

ALSO, just for the record, I read 2H as mulderberg.. which I take not as "weak" but rather minimum opening hand with hearts and a minor. If 2♥ is preemptive (less than opening hand) with major/minor, I will change my bid to 2♠.

Muiderberg shows a weak hand.