[mike777]

AJ92...932...K62....K42


Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why?


T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3

Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why?

[Badmonster]

Am I missing something? Aren't they both flat and minimum and... somewhat lacking in charm?

[pbleighton]

1. Yes, in spite of the shape, because of the prime cards.
2. Not unless you open very light. A balanced 12 count is a minimum which shouldn't accept for pairs who open normally. The trump suit is nice but doesn't make up the difference.

Peter

[Miron]

1) The hand is definitely worth limit raise (even if it would be slightly weaker)
2) No, the limit raise should be passed. Nothing worth interrest, except already told issues: 5 hearts and 12 HCP. If this would be enough for partner to bid game, he would bid it.

[han]

1 Yes.
2 Not for me.

[Miron]

You played 2♥ or 3♥ and the result was 170?
If so, it has 50% * 75% = 38% and even this is lucky (you are missing the ♥A instead of ♠A...)

[Apollo81]

mike777, on Feb 11 2007, 08:18 PM, said:

AJ92...932...K62....K42


Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why?


T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3

Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why?

1.Yes
2.No

[mike777]

ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise?

[Echognome]

mike777, on Feb 11 2007, 07:01 PM, said:

ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise?

The 4 controls certainly help.

[kenrexford]

mike777, on Feb 11 2007, 10:01 PM, said:

ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise?

Although I would admittedly never follow my gut on this in practice, I agree with this thought completely. This looks like a high-end constructive raise.

That's probably wrong, but I also strongly dislike the flat pattern, K-enpty thirds, and lack of any trump honors.

This might even be a fair hand for a 1♠ call.

I cannot imagine accepting with the opened hand.

[neilkaz]

You have 11 HCP but 4333 distribution so deduct a point, but if that leaves you on the fance you have prime controls and the J is in your long suit and 9's are better than 2's so I'd give a 3 card limit raise.

I'd pass any limit raise with this decent 5332 12 HCP.

Game is against the odds here.

.. neilkaz ..

[pclayton]

1. Yes. Its 4333, but its mostly prime.

2. I'd pass.

[inquiry]

Yes
No

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

unclear, but I will surely invite game,
the alternative to the limit raise, would
be to sell the hand as 10-12 bal.

Playing forcing NT, I would sell the hand
as 3 card limit raise, in case partner shows
a 6 card suit, else I would bid 2NT.

Partner has a minimum opener, there is no
reason to accept an invitation.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

1. Yes, but only just. I wouldn't object to a constructive 2major (some systems don't allow a "7-10 3-card raise" in which case I would certainly show it as a limit raise).

2. Nowhere close.

[brianshark]

Yes, easy limit raise.

No, easy pass... and worry that your not too high already.

[SoTired]

1) yes, 11 hcp, 3-card support
2) No - If you accept with this one, just say you accept all invites. This hand is min opener, 5332, even the 2-10's are worthless because not connected. Good rule - with 12-13 hcp, don't accept unless you have a singleton

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Feb 11 2007, 07:18 PM, said:

AJ92...932...K62....K42


Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why?


T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3

Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why?

I'd bid 1♠...I'd much rather play in a 4-4 spade fit than a 5-3 heart fit when the 3 card hand has no ruffing value. Besides, the AJ9x needs some help, and partner can better evaluate his hand with that bid.

If I had a 4 card minor, I'd bid 3♥. It's not a question of strength, just where I'd rather play.

And if my partner accepted the limit raise...well, I wouldn't bother with limit raises any more. What would be the point?

[Apollo81]

mike777, on Feb 11 2007, 11:01 PM, said:

ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise?

LTC works best when there is a 9+ card trump fit and both sides have 4+ trumps.
LTC is much less accurate on other hands.

If you don't LR when you have 11 HCP, then opener will have to invite on all sorts of hands that he shouldn't bid on. For every making game you reach, you will go down in 3M/4M several times when you could have made 2M. If opener doesn't change his inviting style based on "partner routinely has 10-11 HCP for a single raise" then you will miss many good games.

IMO a Drury-like convention should also be used by UPHs to show this hand type.

[dake50]

Closer to 3NT than 4H. Limit BAL 3-support raise in your fit scheme? If 9 tricks are the limit I want to try for a game bonus.