[pbleighton]

From talkingpointsmemo.com:

"But getting our policy in order is also being stymied because the political opponents of the war aren't willing to say that, yes, the policy has failed. Not 'defeated'. To be 'defeated' you need to have some other party 'defeat' you. This is just a failure. But whichever it is, that bogey is being used by the White House to scare off the opposition. It's a failure. There's no recovering it. And the unspeakable reality -- truly unspeakable, apparently -- is that it's not that bad. Horrible for the Iraqis. Horrible for the American dead. Terrible for American prestige, power and honor. All that. But not the end of the world. The future of our civilization isn't at stake. And our physical safety isn't at stake. We'll go on. We are not the brave British standing behind Winston Churchill bucking us up with the confidence that "We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender ..." Those aren't the stakes here. Put it in those words and it's almost comical. President Bush wants us to believe that it is because it serves his grandiosity and direct political interests to believe that, to believe that his political interests -- where everything, history, legacy, etc. is on the line -- are the same as ours as a country. They're not."

Peter

[Al_U_Card]

It always comes down to the lesser evil and the greater good. How great are the evils in question and how great are the good?

International Terrorism doesnt hurt as many people as most infectious diseases.

Radical Islamic fundamentalism generally affects only those people that adhere to it.

Insidious American consumerism......is not all that bad especially if rendered eco-friendly.

Pernicious American Jingoism.....is certainly more responsible for the obvious worldly malaise

Rapacious American Imperialism........oil fired, religion ruled....this is the true evil.

[luke warm]

wow

[BebopKid]

I have no reason to believe that Bush is doing anything differently from what he thinks is in the United States' best interests.

He's shown himself to be an honest man.

[pbleighton]

"I have no reason to believe that Bush is doing anything differently from what he thinks is in the United States' best interests.

He's shown himself to be an honest man."

wow

[hrothgar]

pbleighton, on Feb 7 2007, 01:45 AM, said:

"I have no reason to believe that Bush is doing anything differently from what he thinks is in the United States' best interests.

He's shown himself to be an honest man."

wow

I suspect that Bebo's comment was intended as sarcasm. If not, he's so delusional that his comments can be safely ignored.

[Al_U_Card]

lol wow lol wow lol

The more I see, the clearer it becomes that the US citizenry has no real idea of how they are perceived around the globe.

The ugly american has become the dangerous american.

[BebopKid]

Fear not. My earlier comment was not sarcastic.

I frankly don't care how I'm perceived. I don't have the grand authority to judge others. Unless they know something I don't, they don't have that authority either.

I pray for democracy and freedom for all.

[pbleighton]

"I frankly don't care how I'm perceived. I don't have the grand authority to judge others."

Yes you do.

You sure judged Bush.

You just reached a different verdict than some of us.

Peter

[luke warm]

al, i take it you aren't a jingoist... how would you characterize yourself? patriotic, but not to a fault? objective as to nat'l interests, in a subjective sort of way? impartial in an impartial sort of way?

i don't know who BebopKid is, but what he said is true... we *don't* have any reason to "... believe that Bush is doing anything differently from what he thinks is in the United States' best interests."

Quote

Yes you do.

You sure judged Bush.

actually he didn't judge bush... he simply said he has "... no reason to ..." believe something

[Winstonm]

Quote

He's shown himself to be an honest man.

1. "Saddam would not let the inspectors in." Bush has now made this claim twice. It came as quite a surprise to the hundreds of U.N. inspectors that were in Iraq in 2003 and were told by the U.S. to get out or get bombed.

2. "We have found WMDs in Iraq." Bush and others have made this claim regarding an ever so dangerous weather tracking truck.

I guess the definition of honest in my dictionary is out of date.

[Al_U_Card]

Implausible denial, the next phase. No need for judgement, just straightforward observation. Time to wake up and smell the oil....or maybe the fumes have already taken effect?

[the hog]

BebopKid, on Feb 7 2007, 08:25 AM, said:

I have no reason to believe that Bush is doing anything differently from what he thinks is in the United States' best interests.

He's shown himself to be an honest man.

roflmao

This is a joke, right? The man is a criminal.

[mike777]

If anyone has evidence or proof Bush is a criminal please send it to Nancy P.

It seems she does not have this evidence or is hiding it.

If Congress has this evidence and they are doing nothing with it....they are just as guilty of a coverup.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Feb 7 2007, 12:05 AM, said:

If anyone has evidence or proof Bush is a criminal please send it to Nancy P.

It seems she does not have this evidence or is hiding it.

If Congress has this evidence and they are doing nothing with it....they are just as guilty of a coverup.

Are you implying that Bush has not broken the law?
Or are you implying Pelosi is not doing her job?
Or are you saying Congress's inaction is vindication of Bush?
Or are you saying everyone in Congress as well as the president is a crook?

[the hog]

mike777, on Feb 7 2007, 03:05 PM, said:

If anyone has evidence or proof Bush is a criminal please send it to Nancy P.

It seems she does not have this evidence or is hiding it.

If Congress has this evidence and they are doing nothing with it....they are just as guilty of a coverup.

Well Mike, repeatedly lying to the citizens of the country of which he is the leader. Is this not a criminal act?
Condoning torture, is this not a criminal act?
Illegally tapping phones, is this not a criminal act?

AS an aside, even my govt is sucked in. Did you guys read in the press that an Australian was refused a seat on a Qantas plane for wearing a t shirt that said, "Bush - world's greatest terrorist". The airline officials said it would offend some passengers. lol

[mike777]

As I said does Congress not know this? If they have evidence why do they not begin an impeachment trial?
You do not answer my main point, if Congress has the evidence what are they doing with it? If they do not have the evidence and you do, give it to them.

If you guys are convinced that Bush is a guilty where is Congress and where is the public outrage demanding Congress to have a trial? I just do not see the Public demanding this of Congress or voting Congress out and someone else in.

Is the Public or Congress guilty of a great coverup? You guys seem to say Yes, the American people and Congress are guilty of criminal coverups.

[the hog]

Apathy perhaps or a general malaise, or perhaps a feeling that anything that does not directly impinge on you is not worth worrying about. One example is the torturing of David Hicks at Guantanamo Bay. Yes there is evidence that he has and is bieing tortured, but who of you gives a stuff?

[BebopKid]

The_Hog, on Feb 7 2007, 12:24 AM, said:

Well Mike, repeatedly lying to the citizens of the country of which he is the leader. Is this not a criminal act?
Condoning torture, is this not a criminal act?
Illegally tapping phones, is this not a criminal act?

There is no evidence Pres. Bush has made any false statements.

There has been no condoning of torture.

There has been no illegal tapping of phones.

When a Christian man stands up for what's right he's a liar, and when a horny pervert commits adultery in a national treasure he's a hero.

There is evidence that Iraq at one time had WMD, which Iraq used WMD on the Kurds. Most likely those are in Syria now.

It is fact that Iraq was not allowing full access to U.N. Inspectors. The U.N. even passed a resolution demanding that Iraq stop deterring inspectors.

Also note, that unlike some people, I have not made a personal judgement about anyone posting on this thread based solely on the value of their opinion.

One other thing, everyone who can, please vote for Obama. He's a good, devout Christian.

Thanks.

[the hog]

"There has been no condoning of torture."

I see - shackling someone to the floor is not torture; keepingg them in solitary confinement for 22 hours a day is not torture. These are documented facts. Well Beebop, I hate to find out what you think is torture. Oh and by the way, why does being a "christian" mean that you should vote for that person? (Even if I could vote in the US, which I can't, of course.)
Beebop I lack experience in this as we don't have many people of your persuasion in my country, but are you what is commonly called a Bible Bashing redneck?