[dosxtres]

1♦ pass 1♥ ?

If you play 1N as 55 without opening value
x shows at least 44 in clubs and spades with opening value.

what does show sayc-2/1?

2N
2♦
2♥
anything else?

[Apollo81]

If you play 1NT as weak, shapely takeout as you describe, then it is probably best to play 2♦ and 2♥ as natural 2-level overcalls. 2NT should be even more shapely takeout, at least 6-5 shape.

The "other" mainstream option is to play 1NT as natural and use 2♦ as the weak takeout option. I personally believe that this is more effective than 1NT for takeout. My opponents are constantly responding and opening light, so I frequently hold a strong balanced hand in this position.

[han]

I play 1NT, 2♦ and 2♥ all natural. The only 2-suited bids I have available are double and 2NT.

[pbleighton]

I suggest 1NT = 44 without opening values, then 2NT is 55, a suit is natural.

Peter

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2007, 09:45 AM, said:

I play 1NT, 2♦ and 2♥ all natural. The only 2-suited bids I have available are double and 2NT.

Ditto, although my double isn't a pure 2 suiter either. I'd double on a hand like:

♠AKxx
♥Jxxx
♦Ax
♣Kxx

Important point; discuss it with your pard, but 2N should be 5-5+ in the unbids, not the minors.

[han]

pclayton, on Feb 6 2007, 12:57 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 6 2007, 09:45 AM, said:

I play 1NT, 2♦ and 2♥ all natural. The only 2-suited bids I have available are double and 2NT.

Ditto, although my double isn't a pure 2 suiter either. I'd double on a hand like:

♠AKxx
♥Jxxx
♦Ax
♣Kxx

Important point; discuss it with your pard, but 2N should be 5-5+ in the unbids, not the minors.

I would never double with that.. interesting!

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 6 2007, 12:57 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 6 2007, 09:45 AM, said:

I play 1NT, 2♦ and 2♥ all natural. The only 2-suited bids I have available are double and 2NT.

Ditto, although my double isn't a pure 2 suiter either. I'd double on a hand like:

♠AKxx
♥Jxxx
♦Ax
♣Kxx

Important point; discuss it with your pard, but 2N should be 5-5+ in the unbids, not the minors.

I would never double with that.. interesting!

Yeah; this is somewhat of a carryover when I played sandwich.

Double had to be used to show a hand that wants to compete, but wasn't appropriate for an overcall. The 15-18 balanced was also lumped in.

Now that we play 1N as natural, we still use double as showing a flexible hand, not just a two suited takeout. Its just too easy for them to rob you if you don't getin early.

[han]

I would get in, just not with a double.

Does your double promise 4 spades? Does it promise a good hand?

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2007, 11:42 AM, said:

I would get in, just not with a double.

Does your double promise 4 spades? Does it promise a good hand?

Generally promises a good hand. Doesn't promise 4 of the unbid.

Not playing sandwich, you have to give up something, and I've given up the ability to show the weak takeout - ♠AQxx, ♥xx, ♦, xx, ♣QJxxx. Oh well.

[firmit]

In this "Sandwich" position, I personally like conventional meanings when searching for a fit:
(1♦)-p-(1♥)- ?

1NT showing at least 5+,4 with 5+♥ and exactly 4♣'s.
DBL showing at least 4,5+ with exactly 4♥ and 5+♣, or strong balanced.

This give the option of using cue-bid of first suit ( here ♦ ) as 5+,5+ weak, and 2NT as 5+,5+ strong.

I normally pass with balanced hands up to 16-17 hp in this situation and see where the opponents are heading.

[SoTired]

firmit, on Feb 7 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

In this "Sandwich" position, I personally like conventional meanings when searching for a fit:
(1♦)-p-(1♥)- ?

1NT showing at least 5+,4 with 5+♥ and exactly 4♣'s.
DBL showing at least 4,5+ with exactly 4♥ and 5+♣, or strong balanced.

This give the option of using cue-bid of first suit ( here ♦ ) as 5+,5+ weak, and 2NT as 5+,5+ strong.

I normally pass with balanced hands up to 16-17 hp in this situation and see where the opponents are heading.

You have a lot of bids to show slightly different hands. Some of which you can show with natural bids. But you don't have a bid to show a strong NT hand.

If you have 16-17 balanced and the bidding goes 1D p 1H p 2D p p, you will never convince partner of your strength. You will miss many potential games. With light openers and light responders common, partner could have a balanced 9 opposite your balanced 17.

So I play this after 1D p 1H ?:
1N = 15-18 - same as in direct seat (easier to remember anyway)
2H = natural with good hearts
2D = two-suiter (although many play this natural also)
X = opener+, 4-4 +
2N = preemptive 2-suiter,

[firmit]

SoTired, on Feb 7 2007, 06:11 PM, said:

firmit, on Feb 7 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

In this "Sandwich" position, I personally like conventional meanings when searching for a fit:
(1♦)-p-(1♥)- ?
(..)
I normally pass with balanced hands up to 16-17 hp in this situation and see where the opponents are heading.

You have a lot of bids to show slightly different hands. Some of which you can show with natural bids. But you don't have a bid to show a strong NT hand.

If you have 16-17 balanced and the bidding goes 1D p 1H p 2D p p, you will never convince partner of your strength. You will miss many potential games. With light openers and light responders common, partner could have a balanced 9 opposite your balanced 17.

So I play this after 1D p 1H ?:
1N = 15-18 - same as in direct seat (easier to remember anyway)

If (1♦)-p-(1♥)-1NT is 15-18hp - also VUL - what now if one of them make a penalty dbl?

In my system
{ disregard this sequence
(1♦)-p-(1♥)- pass
(2♦)-p-(p)-2NT may be agreed to show a strong balanced with solid stopper in each of opponents suit - also, no 5 card.
end }

(1♦)-p-(1♥)-DBL is leading the way to show a either a 5+,4 hand or a strong balanced hand. If I rebid NT at the cheapest level I am showing a strong balanced hand, with 5 card in partners preferred suit, I make a cue-bid.

If opps interfere after my dbl, and partner does not bid, I will need convincing to compete with a flat hand. Maybe a penalty-X is better.

This post has been edited by firmit: 2007-February-07, 11:46

[SoTired]

I don't understand.... you are worried about getting a penalty double with a 1N overcall but are willing to come back in with 2N? That does not make sense. Bidding 2N as a reopening bid is a very poor choice on 15-18.

[firmit]

SoTired, on Feb 7 2007, 07:34 PM, said:

I don't understand.... you are worried about getting a penalty double with a 1N overcall but are willing to come back in with 2N? That does not make sense.  Bidding 2N as a reopening bid is a very poor choice on 15-18.

I would have to agree with you, that a reopening of 2NT is not a good option - that's why I said "MAY agree" - and I do NOT normally use it in my system. I would not dream of making this bid in vulnerable seat - actually, I think I never would bid 2NT it that position, ever... So, I think you may disregard that option in the post.

If opponents stops at the 2nd level, we may have some fit our way. A dbl is reasonable with a 4-4 or even 4-3, and good points, for a reopening.

Still, I do not normally get involved with 15-17 flat points as my first option.