[ron]

Scoring: MP

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At unfavorable vul, the auction proceeds

1♥ 1♠ 2♦ 4♣*
4♥ 4♠ 5♥ P
P ?

4♣ was fit-showing, 4+ spades, 5+ good clubs

Do you agree with 1 spade, and, what now?

[pbleighton]

Yes, I would have bid 1S. 2S is tempting but the hand is too good for it.

I bid 5S, with false confidence.

Peter

[helene_t]

Jlall, on Jan 24 2007, 01:49 AM, said:

Partner's 4C bid gave them room to bid 4H hmmmmmmm. lol.

Let's invent the inverted fit-jump: 4♠ shows a fit-jump in clubs.

[mikeh]

I would have bid 2♠...

As it is, I suspect that partner is something like 4=3=1=5 and we may be taking a heck of a lot of tricks even opposite my worst-possible ♣ holding.

Give him Kxxx xxx x AQJxx for example, we have a serious chance of making..... as do they. So I take the very rare 5-level red v white 'save'... altho I am actually bidding it with some expectation of making.... but I won' t redouble

[pclayton]

I bid 2♠ the 1st time at these colors.

I take the push. Pard has spades and clubs (probably 10) and some hearts. Doesn't leave a lot of room for ♦'s does it?

Prototypical hand: Qxxxx, xx, x, AKxxx

What do we have on defense? A spade (maybe), and 2 clubs. 5♠ needs a little luck but not much.

Thank God we are playing fit jumps

[Halo]

I'd start with 2S.

They say the best players are very good at avoiding 5-level phantoms and this may very well be one with both sides -1.

I'm still bidding 5S. There's no helping some people!

[FrancesHinden]

This becomes a question of what do you expect for partner's 4C bid.

Kxxx
xx
xx
AQ10xx

is a very pure fit bid, and 5S rates to go off

The interesting thing is that partner must have short diamonds - I don't believe they have an 11-card fit most of the time, which gives partner at most 1 diamond

At imps or total points I bid 5S because it might make, and if it doesn't, 5H might make, and if neither makes one off squared is not a total disaster.

Matchpoints is much tougher, but I think I expected 4S to be making and the rest of the field won't necessarily have bid 5H so I guess I've been sold a 5S bid for slightly different reasons.

[marcD]

2S would have been ok
holding the boss suit the partner did not bid 4C unless he was fearing competition at the 5 level . His pass on 5H is forcing so now 5S seems clear cut at MP

[SoTired]

5S now and wishing I had bid 2S (or even 3S) earlier.

[Apollo81]

I'd have bid 2♠ earlier; it's a bit dangerous, but I think the shape makes it worth it even at unfavorable.

[FrancesHinden]

Apollo81, on Jan 24 2007, 05:26 PM, said:

I'd have bid 2♠ earlier; it's a bit dangerous, but I think the shape makes it worth it even at unfavorable.

I was thinking I didn't overcall 2S because I was too good, not because it was dangerous!

[pclayton]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 24 2007, 03:02 AM, said:

This becomes a question of what do you expect for partner's 4C bid.

Kxxx
xx
xx
AQ10xx

is a very pure fit bid, (snip)

This is a pure fit bid, but 4♣ is an overbid over an opening, much less an overcall. Frances' hand is a prototypical 3♣ call if my LHO passed, but 4♣ is too much. I would expect a 5th spade or a 6th club, or maybe a 4=4=0=5.

[FrancesHinden]

As I said, it depends what you have agreed you need for a fit bid.

After a few missed double fits, we have agreed that a fit bid shows no more in values than a pre-emptive raise to game, just a different type of hand.

My sample 4225 wants to bid 4S opposite a 1S overcall, so by the above logic it also bids 4C.

Opposite an opening bid, I need even less in the way of high cards. Qxxxx x xx KJxxx is usually a 4C bid after 1S (2H). The order of suits is the only thing that might put me off - on that sample hand 4S is tempting to shut out hearts, but certainly
x Qxxxx xx KJxxx is a 4C bid after 1H (1S)

[000002]

Why partner take a green "pass"on the table after OPPS 5♥?i believe his central high card is inferior ♠ honor and ♣.something like:
KQxx
???
?
KQxxx
based on the fact that 4♣ fit is aggressional hand,not defence,he should take a red "dbl" on the table if he hold a hand better than upper instance,for example,with 1 Ace ,1 King:
Kxxx
xxx
x
AQTxx
opposite 4♠ competition on the unfavorable situation and 5♥ following,he has response to do something with this hand.
of course,i think this is a poor hand to jump 4♣ but no better bidding.

so , i ponder that ,this hand is good to compete 5♠.


regards 000002

[whereagles]

5♠. Seems simple. Pard rates to have a 4315 or thereabouts, so the cross-shortness in the reds should make this a good proposition.

[Apollo81]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 24 2007, 01:39 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 24 2007, 05:26 PM, said:

I'd have bid 2♠ earlier; it's a bit dangerous, but I think the shape makes it worth it even at unfavorable.

I was thinking I didn't overcall 2S because I was too good, not because it was dangerous!

People make jump overcalls too aggressively. A jump overcall is way different than a preempt.