[pbleighton]

"If Iraq is lost we need to get our troops home now. I do not see why Iran cannot have nukes and sell them to whoever they want. It is their nukes.
If NK, Pakistan, India, China and Russian can why not me?"

Because you're untrustworthy.

Peter

[Winstonm]

pbleighton, on Jan 16 2007, 08:02 PM, said:

"If Iraq is lost we need to get our troops home now. I do not see why Iran cannot have nukes and sell them to whoever they want. It is their nukes.
If NK, Pakistan, India, China and Russian can why not me?"

Because you're untrustworthy.

Peter

Oh? How many times have I invaded Afghanistan and Iraq?

[pbleighton]

"Oh? How many times have I invaded Afghanistan and Iraq?"

None, but you might. The denial is pre-emptive.

Peter

[mike777]

Ahh so someone is for preemption

[pbleighton]

"Ahh so someone is for preemption"

Well, you and Winston are so easily occupied.

Peter

[Winstonm]

pbleighton, on Jan 17 2007, 03:33 PM, said:

"Ahh so someone is for preemption"

Well, you and Winston are so easily occupied.

Peter

See, guys, I don't buy any of this. But then, so much of my perception of the world is based on my concepts of how to treat and deal with other people.

First, you cannot change anyone but yourself; second, if someone wants to tell me lies, it doesn't hurt me to accept them as face value - they are only words - it takes action to matter.

By pre-emptively striking, we are giving IMO too much power to the president as commander-in-chief. We open a entire world of make-believe enemy that we must stop before it is too late. We open ourselves to manipulated intelligence and bald-faced lies.

With the military might of the U.S. in terms of absolute devestation, there is plenty of time after it is proven by actions that a country is a danger.

What is the purpose of rushing to judgement - you know, we could be wrong.

[helene_t]

hrothgar, on Jan 14 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

mike777, on Jan 14 2007, 10:09 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Jan 14 2007, 11:18 AM, said:

Refresh my memory.....Vietnam....the US pulls out and......almost nothing....no bloodbath....a re-installation of the NV regime and within a few years peace and order and now Vietnam is getting on the SE asian bandwagon of prosperity.  The surrounding regions?  OMG, no armaghedon either.  Of course there was no oil in Vietnam...

This comment really worries me. In fact in scares the hell out of me. But I scare easy.

Millions died after we pulled out of Vietnam. See Killing Fields movie. The whole region blew up like a series of Dominos

In fact millions more fled Vietnam. See "boat people"..sigh.....millions more were reeducated in facist form.

[....]
Case in point: Mike seems to believe that the US withdrawl from Vietnam was somehow related to the Khymer Rouge's extermination programs in neighboring Cambodia. I'm somewhat skeptical of this claim. (As I learned things, the Khymer Rouge were driven from power when they were invaded by Communist Vietnam). [.....]

Allthough I don't see what the Killing Fields (yes, I did see the movie) have to do with Vietnam, I wouldn't say that Vietnam suddenly turned into peace and prosperity as soon as the U.S. left. A few years later they were at war with China and Cambodia (then Kampuchea), the latter war at a pretty large scale allthough not comparable to the wars with France and U.S., of course. Hundreds of thousands fled Vietnam, I think the majority from poverty allthough the Vietnamese government was just as inhumane as other communist regimes.

It's correct that the economic situation in Vietnam is now improving and even the human rights situation is not as bad as it was, but this is just happening recently, some 25 years after the American War (as I believe they call it).

[Winstonm]

Read something last night that might be of note - an article said that a second carrier in the region probably is saber rattling but a third (keep an eye on the Nimitz) would signal impending war.

It said the Nimitz has just finished being readied in San Diego - which way it goes should announce what will happen in Iran.

[Rain]

Why second guess? Lets invite Bush here to post his thoughts. We'd all be better for it.

[Al_U_Card]

Thoughts imply cognition.....that's a mighty big step you're a-takin' there pard! GWB