[zasanya]

Scoring: IMP

How will you bid these hands?

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A hand from a team match on bbo.How would you bid with your favourite P?

[mike777]

zasanya, on Jan 4 2007, 08:37 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

How will you bid these hands?

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A hand from a team match on bbo.How would you bid with your favourite P?

1H=1NT...cannot bid a direct 2c or 3c or 4clubs
3D=4C
4D=5C
P

I try very hard to not put down a 7+ card suit as dummy.

[whereagles]

1♥ 1NT
3♦ 5♣
pass

[inquiry]

Oh the misiry....

2NT - 3NT
4♣ - 5♣
Pass/6♣


2NT = club preempt or strong two suiter with hearts and either spades or diamonds.

3NT = I want to play 3NT opposite a preempt, or I am weak/strong with club suit and want to play in clubs...

4♣ = opener passes with any hand with a club preempt. So first off, 4♣ never shows clubs. Here it shows an unknown two suiter willing to stop in 4♣ opposite a bust hand with lots of clubs. ((edited... misdescribed the precise meaning of 4♣ initially))..

5♣ = my suit is clubs, and I want to play in game in clubs despite the misfit (a red suit bid after 3NT would be essentially slam force, as if opener has strong hand and responder wanted to play 3NT, well, then Grand slam is likely).

Pass/6♣ - At this point, 6♣ is a possible bid by south. He could have a club void and he could have a lot less controls for this auction. Surely North must be planning on winning at least 6 trick in clubs (6 clubs plus AK, A, AK is 11 tricks), so a diamond hook or a 7th club or even a spade ruff, might be enough for slam. I am not certain, however that I would bid 6♣.... but I would seriously consider it....

[Codo]

1 ♥ 2 ♣ I am strong enough for 2/1 in Sayc)
2 ♦ 3 ♣
3 ♦ 5 ♣ (4 Club had been stronger)
6 ♣

Ok 5 Club is safer, but maybe 6 Club is better.

[P_Marlowe]

zasanya, on Jan 4 2007, 08:37 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

How will you bid these hands?

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A hand from a team match on bbo.How would you bid with your favourite P?

Hi,

1H - 3C (1)
3D (2) - 4C (3)
5C (4)

(1) My partner asked to switch from strong
jump shifts to weak jumpshifts.
(2) natural
(3) 8 card suits have a name: "trumps"
(4) so be it

With kind regards
Marlowe

[awm]

1♥ - 2♣ (1)
2♦ - 3♣ (2)
3NT - 5♣ (3)
6♣ (4)

(1) Not necessarily GF
(2) Invitational only, NF
(3) Preference, very non-forward-going
(4) Likely hands include KQJTxxxx of club (i.e. any decent 8-card club suit that isn't solid, without a sure side entry); with so many controls we're cold for slam opposite that.

[the hog]

Auctions have been suggested to 5C which are reasonable auctions. All I can say about the 2C bidders is that they are masterminding after seeing all the cards. This is NOT a 2C bid, even in Acol.

[awm]

Actually I've responded 2♣ on many occasions with a six-card club suit that looks like it might run. 2♣ is my normal bid on a balanced 11 or a nice 10. I've bid 2♣ on eight-counts before with a really nice suit that isn't even eight-long (AKJT9x and out at one point I think).

Keep in mind that we play 3♣ strong and 1NT non-forcing. A hand like this one has play for game opposite as little as:

xxx
AKxxx
Axx
xx

which is not really an opening bid in our style. And 2♣ is not game forcing; in fact I expect to be allowed to play 3♣ opposite most hands in the 12-14 range with a singleton club for example.

Evaluating hands with a lot of shape is tricky. I've seen partner make a 2/1 bid with a 5-5 nine-count before, because her hand would be difficult to describe after bididng 1NT. In general playing "non-GF 2/1s" gives us more freedom to bid our suits and then get out of the auction if there's an apparent misfit. I wouldn't say this is masterminding -- it's just our style. Take away a club and I'd bid 1NT like everyone else, but with a good eight-bagger I like to bid it.

As another point, suppose your partner opened a 12-14 1NT opposite this hand. Do you think you could make game? I would bid game. If I think I can make game opposite 12-14 balanced, I start with a 2/1 bid, keeping in mind that it's not game forcing and relatively easy for me to play 3♣ if partner has a misfit (i.e. unbalanced 12-14 short in clubs).

[Halo]

1H - 5C

?

Probably pass from South.

[mikeh]

Wow. Everyone reaches the best spot... or nearly. You guys are too tough for me.

1♥ 1N forcing
3♦ 4♣
4♦ 4♥

whoops... missed the ♣ suit

This is not a good hand for 2/1 gf, obviously. I strongly disagree with those who say that the North hand is worth 2♣ in 2/1. As to whether it is worth a 2♣ response in a different method, I leave to others more familiar with such... I have not played other than 2/1 in a serious partnership in 20+ years...

Having inflicted the 1N, the 3♦ jumpshift is obvious.

The next issue is what does 4♣ say?

It is forcing, since 3♦ committed us to game. And it is natural: one should not use this as any form of advance cue-bid: you can set a red suit as trump and still cue the ♣A below game on auctions where that is relevant.

South has an automatic 4♦ bid to show the 5th card.

Now what does N do? I learned a long time ago that one should rarely, if ever, lay down an 8 card suit in dummy unless it is trump support, but not all mantras are always applicable.

Surely 4♥ is the right bid here, assuming you have not seen partner's hand?

You know that 4♥ has t obe a playable spot, and what is there about your hand that makes you think that 5♣ is better? Or that slam is reasonable?

There are a multitude of hands on which partner holds a void in ♣s, making ♣ contracts dubious, and where 4♥ rates to be cold. Plus, 4♥ making 4 or 5 wins compared to 5♣ making 5 even at imps. This is a minor factor, but not completely trivial.

Give partner Axx AQJxx AQJxx void and submit this to a bidding poll: or KQx AQJxx AKJxx void or even AQ AJ98x AKJxx x and play 6♣ on the marked ♠ lead.

[pclayton]

1♥ - 3♣
3♦ - 4♣
4♠ - 5♣
Pass

1. 3♣ = Invitaitonal; OK to upgrade with 8 bagger
2. 3♦ = Forcing
3. 4♣ = What else?
4. 4♠ = Gag; I'll cue in case pard is semi-solid clubs
5. 5♣ = sorry Charlie.

LOL: just noticed that some are treating this as anything from a WJS to a 2/1.

[pclayton]

Halo, on Jan 4 2007, 12:33 PM, said:

1H - 5C

?

Probably pass from South.

This is a pretty reasonable approach.

[P_Marlowe]

mikeh, on Jan 4 2007, 04:00 PM, said:

Wow. Everyone reaches the best spot... or nearly. You guys are too tough for me.

1♥    1N forcing
3♦    4♣
4♦    4♥

whoops... missed the ♣ suit
<snip>

Hi Mike,

the main problem with your given seq. in a 2/1
system, i.e. a forcing NT is, that 4C may or may
not be interpreted as a cue in support
of diamonds or hearts, this depends to a large degree
on the meaning of responders 3H / 3S / 3NT / 4D
rebids.
More likely than a hand with long clubs is the
bal. hand 10-12 or the limit raise with hearts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

Not sure why thinking 4clubs in not natural is a problem, if you have no other way to show a weak or int hand with long clubs which I do not. I could just bid 3h or 4d if I got support and not try and make a confusing cuebid.
1h=5c is close but why not let partner show her hand?

Again how bad can playing in an 8-0 fit at the five level really be? Sure I can go down but 5clubs seems like a pretty middle of the road choice after 4d by partner.

[the hog]

mikeh, on Jan 5 2007, 07:00 AM, said:

Wow. Everyone reaches the best spot... or nearly. You guys are too tough for me.

Its pretty easy when you can see both hands. Thats the problem with questions like this. Actually I am beginning to think Halo's sequence of 1H 5C is best.

[HeartA]

pclayton, on Jan 4 2007, 04:22 PM, said:

1♥ - 3♣
3♦ - 4♣
4♠ - 5♣
Pass

1. 3♣ = Invitaitonal; OK to upgrade with 8 bagger
2. 3♦ = Forcing
3. 4♣ = What else?
4. 4♠ = Gag; I'll cue in case pard is semi-solid clubs
5. 5♣ = sorry Charlie.

LOL: just noticed that some are treating this as anything from a WJS to a 2/1.

I would bid the same.

[zasanya]

mikeh, on Jan 4 2007, 04:00 PM, said:

You know that 4♥ has t obe a playable spot, and what is there about your hand that makes you think that 5♣ is better? Or that slam is reasonable?

There are a multitude of hands on which partner holds a void in ♣s, making ♣ contracts dubious, and where 4♥ rates to be cold. Plus, 4♥ making 4 or 5 wins compared to 5♣ making 5 even at imps. This is a minor factor, but not completely trivial.

Give partner Axx AQJxx AQJxx void and submit this to a bidding poll: or KQx AQJxx AKJxx void or even AQ AJ98x AKJxx x and play 6♣ on the marked ♠ lead.

TY SIR.You saved some of my pride.Playing power precision me and my P reached 4♥.After the following auction.
1♣=16+----1♦0-8
1♥=relay(either 20-21 bal or natural 5+♥-------1♠ relay denying certain hand patterns like 0-2 6card suit /7-8 balanced/semi-solid 6+card suit.(I think I should have bid 3♣ instead of 1♠)
3♦=strong 2 suiter------4♣= natural
4♦-------4♥
The other table a reasonable pair bid 3nt on the following 2/1 auction.
1♥-1NT-3♦-3♥-3NT
♥ broke 4-2 ♦5-2 ♣2-2.We gained 3 imps.Most of the posters would have gained much more .
Ty all

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Jan 4 2007, 08:14 PM, said:

This is NOT a 2C bid, even in Acol.

It used to be a 2♣ bid in the old days of widespread 4-card majors, before people realized this sort of hand could better handled via 1NT followed by 3♣.

[mcphee]

Incredible to see so many reach 5C. I know I wouldn't.
1H 1N
3D 4C could not bring myself to bid 3H and not show C
4D 4H

I think bidding past 4H to 5C is a grave error in judgement. With the hands shown the 5C bidders are a bit lucky, 6C bidders are dreamers as this is just horrible to even consider. (how lucky pard not only had a trump but covered BOTH S losers when he might have held Kx S [yum yum].