[mike777]

9753....Q52...Q8....K764

both vul.


1C=1S
3S!=?

3s!=Please assume for this post that 3s shows 4 spades and a balanced 18-19 HCP.

Your call and why?

[whereagles]

Just what the doctor ordered: 3NT.

Wouldn't be surprised to see 4♠ fail on 4 top tricks while 3NT rolls home.

[Gpm_bg]

I'll try 4♠ with the hope that partner hold something like :
4th♠AJ10x
2nd♥Ax
3rd♦Kxx
4th♣-AQxx

Parnter shouldn't have less then 3Aces, becouse such an invitations with 14-15 distrubutive pts he/she may bid directly 4♠.
He/she didn't rebid 3♦ which could be single or void ♦ and hand like 4-4-1-4 or 4-4-0-5.
As some experienced players says: The expected profit is more chancefull then expected lose here"
So i'll try with the risk that partner could have and
4th♠K109x
3rd♥Axx
2nd♦AK
4th♣A109x

[1eyedjack]

I don't see 4♠ as being the right bid. 3N is only a contract suggestion. Partner can still pull it to 4♠ if 4♠ is right. If ever there was a more No-trumpy type of hand I have yet to see it: Poor Spades and quacks in unbid suits. That is what 3N would be telling opener. Let him make a more informed decision than you as responder can ever make. To be honest I would rank Pass as second choice. I can quite easily construct hands where there is no making game. But it is a numbers racket so I bid 3N.

[neilkaz]

If you play that in this sequence 3NT is Serious 3NT suggesting slam interest then you are cannot bid 3NT as a suggestion to play.

I think I prefer to play 3NT here as a suggestion to play 3NT in spite of our 4-4 fit with my slow tricks and weak ♠. With slam interest I could Q at the 4 level.

// neilkaz //

[1eyedjack]

I sometimes play serious, but usually agree only to do so in where the auction is already GF. Not sure that there is much logic to that agreement, so may revisit my thoughts on that.

[Winstonm]

Jlall, on Dec 30 2006, 01:01 PM, said:

Opposite most people I would pass. Opposite myself I would bid 3N (my 3S bids tend to be very sound). This is a bad hand and most people would bid 3S with many hands that had 14 points and a stiff, all hands that had 15 points and a stiff, and all 5422 15/16s. Most people would bid game with 19, and with a lot of 18s. Surprised that the only discussion so far is on WHAT to bid.

I think this is the reason - from the original post: 3s!=Please assume for this post that 3s shows 4 spades and a balanced 18-19 HCP.

It appears the question being asked is what to bid if partner holds 18-19 balanced and 4 spades. To that set of circumstances I would bid 3N, as the spades are bad and my holdings are the type that increase if led into across from Ax.

If I am just playing, I would pass 3S as the double jump support bid is the most aggressive over-bid by most players, and this collection isn't going to be worth much opposite a 4144 15-count.

[HeartA]

Yes, I voted for 3NT.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Dec 30 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

Sorry I missed that It also says ACBL bulletin hand, I'm sure that this is not the agreement, but ok since mike wants us to live in this world where 3S shows specifically 18-19 balanced with 4 spades... I guess I would bid 3N.

This time not one but both pairs are playing this agreement!

Thanks for the comments so far this is getting interesting! I will post the magazine comments later....

[mike777]

Jlall, on Dec 30 2006, 04:35 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 30 2006, 04:13 PM, said:

Jlall, on Dec 30 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

Sorry I missed that It also says ACBL bulletin hand, I'm sure that this is not the agreement, but ok since mike wants us to live in this world where 3S shows specifically 18-19 balanced with 4 spades... I guess I would bid 3N.

This time not one but both pairs are playing this agreement!

Thanks for the comments so far this is getting interesting! I will post the magazine comments later....

are you sure its not "the equivalent of 18-19 balanced"?

Thanks for asking but yes I am sure.

3s! promises 4 spades and a balanced 18-19 hcp.
Both Doub/Wildavsky and Weinstein/Garner are playing this on the problem.
I found this a tough problem given all of this information so I look forward to all of your comments. Ty.

[awm]

Note that on this particular auction, opener has both 3♦ and 3♥ jump-reverses available. Assuming one plays these as invitational or better with shortage in the bid suit (as is fairly common these days), there's no particular need to ever bid 3♠ on a hand with a singleton. I suppose it's possible opener holds some 4-2-2-5 hand in the 15-17 range, but a lot of people open those 1NT these days too.

So the agreement that "3♠ in this auction shows 18-19 balanced" is actually not that peculiar. I agree with the majority that if 3NT is suggesting a contract I will bid that, whereas if 3NT would be "serious slam interest" or the like I'll bid a somewhat unhappy 4♠ (I could easily see 4♠ failing, but avoiding game with 25-26 high and a 4-4 fit is too big a position for me to take).

[the hog]

Can't bid 3NT if that is "Serious" or "Frivolous" as the case may be. Actually I pass, this is a really bad hand.

[flytoox]

Isnt 3N kind of illogical given you responded with 1S at the first round? If you are worrying about your suit quality then why not bid 1N over pd's 1D?

Now I bid 4S, given I am forced to bid 1S at the first round.

[HeartA]

I don't think it's illogical to bid 3N. It offered a choice for pd. If I had bid 1NT in the first round, 4S would never be found.

[geller]

The initial problem didn't specify the scoring (or if it did I missed it, sorry), but having read to this point I assume it's matchpoints rather than imps. If that's the case pass is somewhat more attractive. (I still bid 4♠ though.) No reason to necessarily suppose 3NT is a better game contract, although obviously there are some hands where that could be the case.

If you really want to answer this question, get a hand-generator and deal out 100 18-19 balanced raises to 3♠ and then see which of 3♠, 4♠, or 3NT is best. (I'm too lazy to try this myself.....)

-Bob

[whereagles]

Jlall, on Dec 30 2006, 06:01 PM, said:

Surprised that the only discussion so far is on WHAT to bid.

Well, the hand is pretty bad indeed, but you do have 25-26 hcp combined. I might mastermind a pass here if I were the strong hand. Being the weak one, I prefer to simply play it straight down the middle.

[mike777]

geller, on Dec 31 2006, 01:54 AM, said:

The initial problem didn't specify the scoring (or if it did I missed it, sorry), but having read to this point I assume it's matchpoints rather than imps.  If that's the case pass is somewhat more attractive.  (I still bid 4♠ though.)  No reason to necessarily suppose 3NT is a better game contract, although obviously there are some hands where that could be the case.

If you really want to answer this question, get a hand-generator and deal out 100 18-19 balanced raises to 3♠ and then see which of 3♠, 4♠, or 3NT is best.  (I'm too lazy to try this myself.....)

-Bob

Since this is the beginner section let us assume we do not have a hand generator before we bid at the table.

With that said we need to something to guide us, we are not world champs!