[onoway]

I used to be against the death penalty..for one thing too many people are found guilty and later found to be innocent and the death penalty makes that particular wrong a bit difficult to correct in any meaningful way. That said, I now am ambivilent if not pro execution for people who are PROVEN in a true court of law to have behaved in such a fashion as to make it questionable whether the accused has any capacity to be trusted to behave in a "civilized" fashion. I am thinking specifically of people who rape babies (it happens, believe it or not) and that level of antisocial behaviour. To me, anyone who behaves in such a fashion has virtually rejected his right to be called human and should be executed like any other rabid animal.

However, I also think that should there be any doubt whatsoever, there should be some sort of failsafe where people who are found guilty could be put into some sort of cold storage...I read some time ago about an anesthetist who was investigating various natural drugs used in various cultures, including those used to create a state where the person was in a state of suspended animation, so to speak..able to see and hear but unable to move. it seems to me that should such a situation be available it would be a much more terrifying and preventative prospect for the person comtemplating murder or such...be a whole lot cheaper to run than most prisons are now, and in the event of a mistake the person could be restored to some sort of life. Admittedly, it sounds science-fictionish, but how much more so than instant communication throughout the world through the internet?

as far as Saddam...he lived by the sword, so to speak, so if you play in that sandpatch..unfortunately Bush is also playing in that sandpatch and it seems unlikely he will ever be called to account in this world for his actions. Even people whose parents were killed by Saddam acknowlege it was not a fair trial. It is unfortuante that someone who claims to be trying to bring the world to democracy seems to have so little faith in democracy and the rule of law actually working.....

[Winstonm]

Quote

I read some time ago about an anesthetist who was investigating various natural drugs used in various cultures, including those used to create a state where the person was in a state of suspended animation, so to speak..able to see and hear but unable to move.

There's a thought....we put them into this state and then auction off their body parts until they die from "natural" causes - like liver failure (in this case the failure to have a liver any longer.)

However, another part of the post is a good question - is there a point with sociopaths when they could be deemed sub-human? Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez come to mind as two convicted serial killers with no consciense and no remorse - without this aspect of "humanity", were they still human?

Just for the record, I am mostly anti-death penalty but can see in the case of repetetive behavior where it might have some impact and stop future crimes - in the case of Ted Bundy, he escaped jail in Colorado only to murder again in Florida.

[onoway]

well I would be sorry to think that everyone would jump to the same gruesome possibilities as you did..I certainly never suggested any such thing as auctioning off body parts...would be a bit difficult to restore a person to society in the event of wrongful conviction if you had chopped them to bits for the highest bidder.

a question..would you WANT to have Ted Bundy's liver? or anything else?

[Winstonm]

"a question..would you WANT to have Ted Bundy's liver?[QUOTE]

with some fava beans and a nice Chianti....???

BTW, I wasn't saying you suggested any such thing...just some dark humor on a dark (but important) subject.

[helene_t]

Quote

until they die from "natural" causes - like liver failure (in this case the failure to have a liver any longer.)

Like the Monty Python sketch:
A: G'day. are you mr Smith? We're here to remove your liver. According to the organ donor registration you agreed to donate your liver
B: But that was in case of my death !?!?!?!?!?!?
A: Don't worry, nobody has ever survived having their liver removed

Quote

would you WANT to have Ted Bundy's liver? or anything else?

Yes. Have you seen the Chinese "Bodies" exhibition? They expose real human boddies and body parts, from the entire vascular system (with everything else removed) to thin slices of a human body, preserved in some hi-tech way (don't know the details. It's really facinating. Most things your not allowed to touch. But they had a leg muscle, a kidney and - yes - a liver which you were allowed to touch. The liver and the kidney were rather hard, the leg musscle more like soft rubber.

[helene_t]

Winstonm, on Jan 3 2007, 02:40 AM, said:

However, another part of the post is a good question - is there a point with sociopaths when they could be deemed sub-human?

Semantics, seschmantics. Whether the death penalty is a good thing is one issue. How a Homo Sapiens should be defined is another issue. It's a surprisingly common falacy to think that the two are related.

[luke warm]

helene_t, on Jan 4 2007, 04:52 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jan 3 2007, 02:40 AM, said:

However, another part of the post is a good question - is there a point with sociopaths when they could be deemed sub-human?

Semantics, seschmantics. Whether the death penalty is a good thing is one issue. How a Homo Sapiens should be defined is another issue. It's a surprisingly common falacy to think that the two are related.

good point, helene... i for one would hate to be accused of being an anti-semantic