[xx1943]

Hi all

do you have a good bidding-system, if opponents play the 2 NT-opening as unusual (preempt with 55 in minors)?

Thanks for your replies

Al

[Echognome]

Seems to me using unusual over unusual is a good start. I'd add the jump cuebids as follows as well.

(2NT) - ?

Dbl Penalty of one or both minors
3♣ Good hand with ♥ better than ♠
3♦ Good hand with ♠ better than ♥
3♥ Natural competitive
3♠ Natural competitive
3NT To play
4♣ Good 4M bid
4♦ 55 Majors Good hand
4♥/♠ To play

Alternative is to distinguish between both majors hands with 4♣ and 4♦.

[whereagles]

LOL.. I thought this was methods to show a 55 over a 20-22 2NT In which case I was just about to propose dont, eheh.

As it is, Echo's scheme is good. A 2NT for the minors is pretty easy to defend. A 2NT as pree in any suit is a whole different ball game

[pclayton]

Echognome, on Feb 15 2007, 02:32 AM, said:

Seems to me using unusual over unusual is a good start. I'd add the jump cuebids as follows as well.

(2NT) - ?

Dbl Penalty of one or both minors
3♣ Good hand with ♥ better than ♠
3♦ Good hand with ♠ better than ♥
3♥ Natural competitive
3♠ Natural competitive
3NT To play
4♣ Good 4M bid
4♦ 55 Majors Good hand
4♥/♠ To play

Alternative is to distinguish between both majors hands with 4♣ and 4♦.

This is basically what I play, although we haven't defined jump cue bids. I think they'd be better used as splitting the single suited hand that wants to bid 4M however.

By the way, an Unusual 2N is not at all easy to defend. You start your bidding at the 3 level. Its a world away from an Unusual 2N overcall.

I play this in most of my partnerships, especially where Multi is allowed, and I can add in one of the big balanced hands.

[marcD]

Echognome, on Feb 15 2007, 05:32 AM, said:

Seems to me using unusual over unusual is a good start. I'd add the jump cuebids as follows as well.

(2NT) - ?

Dbl Penalty of one or both minors
3♣ Good hand with ♥ better than ♠
3♦ Good hand with ♠ better than ♥
3♥ Natural competitive
3♠ Natural competitive
3NT To play
4♣ Good 4M bid
4♦ 55 Majors Good hand
4♥/♠ To play

Alternative is to distinguish between both majors hands with 4♣ and 4♦.

Play the same except dbl shows values (13+ balanced). No need to warn them we have a penalty double in a minor : just pass and then double. Value showing double enables partner to better judge the situation

[jtfanclub]

marcD, on Feb 15 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

Play the same except dbl shows values (13+ balanced). No need to warn them we have a penalty double in a minor : just pass and then double. Value showing double enables partner to better judge the situation

Don't assume you'll get another chance to bid...one of the nice things about using 2NT is that partner can pass it, either when he thinks it's the right contract or he thinks anything undoubled is better than anything doubled.

[fred]

2 other reasonable approaches can be developed based on:

- 3C=good hand with both majors
- 3D=lesser hand with both majors

or:

- 3C=both majors
- 3D=hearts
- 3H=spades

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

fred, on Feb 15 2007, 11:05 PM, said:

2 other reasonable approaches can be developed based on:

- 3C=good hand with both majors
- 3D=lesser hand with both majors

or:

- 3C=both majors
- 3D=hearts
- 3H=spades

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

The following might be a slight improvement on the methods that Fred suggests (If you're going to show a weak hand with both majors, you might as well do so by bidding 3♥ rather than 3♦)

X = Various strong hand types
3♣ = Good hand with both majors
3♦ = Hearts (not sure if it would be better to treat this as an x-fer or a puppet)
3♥ = Competitive hand with both majors
3♠ = Spades

[JanM]

We use a method similar to Echo's, but show relative lengths of the Majors, not which is "better" because we'd like to play in our longer combined suit. So:

DBL: 14+ probably balanced or 18+ one-suited Major
3♣: 5+ hearts, 4+ spades (now 3♦ is available to ask for a 5 card spade suit)
3♦: exactly 4 hearts, 5 or 6 spades
3M: Natural NF
3NT: To play (tricks)
4♣: 6+ hearts, 4+ spades, always a 2 card discrepancy, good enough to force to game
4♦: Ditto, but longer spades
4M Natural NF

Although the 4m bids aren't terribly useful, we haven't found anything more useful (with the very good 1-suiter in a Major, we DBL and then bid the Major) and this is a defense you can't look at at the table, so it's best to keep it reasonably simple.

[han]

I'm 100% sure Echo meant "longer" when he said "better".

[marcD]

jtfanclub, on Feb 15 2007, 02:08 PM, said:

marcD, on Feb 15 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

Play the same except dbl shows values (13+ balanced). No need to warn them we have a penalty double in a minor : just pass and then double. Value showing double enables partner to better judge the situation

Don't assume you'll get another chance to bid...one of the nice things about using 2NT is that partner can pass it, either when he thinks it's the right contract or he thinks anything undoubled is better than anything doubled.

I see your point but people in Europe who use it (mostly poles of course) tend to use it with decent hands and double seems more useful as shwing values than pure penalty. Also if 2NT gets passed partner will do its outmost to balance with double

[dake50]

3-level xfers - guaratees a second chance which may be pass, but allows 2 messages low; X penalty seeking. Pass - waiting to see them in trouble.