[hrothgar]

Here's a second hand from yesterday. This time you're in AWM's seat
(BTW Adam score up a quite nice game)

You hold

---

You open 1♣ in third seat and the auction starts:

1♣ - (1♦) - X - (P)
???

What's your rebid?

[inquiry]

2♠... not forcing... but shows a little extra and of course, 4♠'s.

[cherdano]

Actually I prefer a style where bidding 2M on this auction with a 4card major is almost automatic; if you bid 1M, it tends to show 3 (but could of course be done on some ugly balanced hands with 4-card support).

Of course, I wouldn't inflict this style on my partner in an indy, but with modest extras as here I will definitely bid 2S.

(I hope the question wasn't whether to bid 3S )

[Winstonm]

I like the 2S bid but admit to being a 1S bidder at the table.

[hotShot]

Without other agreements i would guess that 2♠ shows extra values, while 1♠ shows a minimum opening here.
So i would bid 1♠.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1S, partner will raise, if he holds 4 card support,
since I am pretty sure, partner will treat 1S as
forcing.
It also gives me the chance, to hear, what the
opponents have to say.

In case he bids 2D, I always can reopen with X.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mink]

Those who bid 2♠ here introduce a system that is not commonly defined. Sure, unlike after a 1♠ bid by partner, we have now 4 possible ways to show the fit. However, there are only 3 defined strength zones: normal opening, inviting, gameforcing. The natural way to assign these zones to the available bids is starting with 1♠ for the normal opening.

Of course it is cuter to split the normal opening in "just minimum (=1♠)" and "a little above minimum (=2♠)", but I think you cannot assume this is common sense.

Karl

[barmar]

There are actually FIVE ways to show a fit, since you can start with a cue bid and then bid ♠. In fact, there may be even more than 5, since you can jump after cueing (but this might be interpreted as a splinter).

[cnszsun]

cherdano, on Jan 1 2007, 02:53 AM, said:

Actually I prefer a style where bidding 2M on this auction with a 4card major is almost automatic; if you bid 1M, it tends to show 3 (but could of course be done on some  ugly balanced hands with 4-card support).

Of course, I wouldn't inflict this style on my partner in an indy, but with modest extras as here I will definitely bid 2S.

(I hope the question wasn't whether to bid 3S )

I like this style.
Partner's negative double here promises 4-4 majors, so it's safe to bid 2 with 4 card fit except some dead minimum. If 2♠ does not have much invite meaning, then you have to bid 3♠ to show real invite hand, for example adding one Q in major here, right?

[pclayton]

1♠ is fine. Where are the diamonds? (hint - pard has a few)

[mink]

Well, in this case, partner had a singleton in ♦. But not clear how partner's ♦ suit should influence my bidding. If he has only small ♦ cards, fine. If he has honors, they are behind the overcaller.

Karl

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Jan 2 2007, 05:00 AM, said:

1♠ is fine. Where are the diamonds? (hint - pard has a few)

Not necessarily, and even if he does -- so what? He chose to show 4-4 in the majors instead of bidding some number of NT, so I think I owe him to confirm the 4-4 fit. If he has some diamonds, the hand may play well on a x-ruff in the minors after we cash our hearts, or by ruffing out the clubs.

2♠ had the nice side effect that LHO can't show his playing strength with a jump to 3♦ if partner is minimum...

[the hog]

I would bid 1S; that is especially enough playing with Richard who will force to 6S if you bid 2S!!!!
Seriously 1S is ok on this hand, though Arend's suggestion has a little merit.

[hrothgar]

The_Hog, on Jan 3 2007, 02:00 AM, said:

I would bid 1S; that is especially enough playing with Richard who will force to 6S if you bid 2S!!!!
Seriously 1S is ok on this hand, though Arend's suggestion has a little merit.

My old partner figured out exactly what happened.

Adam bid 2♠ and ended up in a very bad 6♠ contract when I assumed that he's have more values.

[the hog]

WOW. That is impressive hog. Seriously."

I can't take the credit for this Justin. I was on line yesterday and saw a link to the results and out of curiosity looked at Richard's.

[inquiry]

I did a little bridgebrowser study of this auction to see what 1S, 2S and 3S showed based soley on hcp. The results were confusing....

1S ranged from 10 to 21 hcp, with a peak at 13-14 (of course 13-14 hcp is more likely explaining in part the higher frequency).

2S ranged from 9(!) to 22 hcp, with two peaks, one at 14 and another at 17. Here 17 was larger than 14, but 14 was much higher than 15 and roughly equal to 16. There were very few 11 and 12 point hands.

The 3S pattern looked very much like the 2S pattern.

It seems to me that 1S should be blah hands with four spades, or weakish hands with three spades. 2S should be some "shapely" hands with spades and the suit opened, but not necessarily loads of points. You have cue-bids, 3S, etc to show better hands.

[awm]

When I bid this hand I thought it was close between 1♠ and 2♠. Basically I would bid 1♠ with a balanced 12-14, or with various hands including only three spades. I define 2♠ as "better than a balanced 12-14, but not as good as a balanced 18." So this includes mostly shapely hands in the 13-16 range. I liked the shape of the actual hand, as well as holding so many working cards (aces) outside the trump suit.

While I knew there was some risk of getting too high, I didn't expect to be forced to slam by a passed hand, especially a passed hand with JTxx of ♥ after I specifically signed off (refused to cuebid 4♥) over the 4♦ slam try.

But hey, I guess some people trust my jump rebids and not my slam bidding.

[mike777]

I am surprised by the 2s responses. Does not 1s show this hand and partner is a passed hand? We opened in third seat?

Maybe it helps I never, almost never, bid 1s on a 3 card suit.