[matmat]

We've had a few sour threads recently regarding how to curb cheating. I'd prefer if this didn't turn into one.

Why do people cheat? (at bridge, other games, etc.)

the answer is obvious if there is money, power or love at stake, but what about when there's nothing on the line? people still cheat. why?

[jocdelevat]

for their EGO or by dilettante players .
I think in this world modesty became forbiden. Im surprise to see how many players put in their profile World Class Player.

[Trysalot]

Ego is one thing. It doesn't matter whether there is any prize, the beating of the others in the game is the goal, the person wants to WIN and, if he can only do that by cheating, he will cheat.

Self-satisfaction is another thing. For this person it isn't cheating to win. It is cheating to have the self-satisfaction of getting away with something, of doing it and not being caught doing it.

[the hog]

There are lots of reasons:
Trying to prove your superiority, usually because you have a low level of self esteem.
Ego.
Money in the professional game.

[matmat]

The_Hog, on Dec 26 2006, 03:40 AM, said:

Trying to prove your superiority, usually because you have a low level of self esteem.

and no remorse, feeling of guilt or that hollow feeling of an undeserved victory? *sigh*

[jillybean]

Ego
The danger and thrill from not getting caught
Rewards - money,prizes, status

[hotShot]

People cheat at bridge

1) because they don't want to be last.
2) because they don't even know they cheat (look at social bridge, there are players that use any UI available, although they don't know how UI is defined)
3) because they feel like experts, but the results are not as good as they should be. They *know* everybody else is cheating, because otherwise they would not beat them. They try to restore equal chances by cheating too.
4) because they want to keep the playing level of their peer group.
5) because they can get away with it.
6) because the second is a looser.
....

[Al_U_Card]

Because evil must exist in the world.

[Free]

hotShot, on Dec 26 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

People cheat at bridge

~snip~
3) because they feel like experts, but the results are not as good as they should be. They *know* everybody else is cheating, because otherwise they would not beat them. They try to restore equal chances by cheating too.
~snip~

I guess this is one of the best descriptions I've ever seen, and it's valid for all kinds of competitive games/sports/events.

Some people just think they're better than they are (it's called a dream, a wish, hope) but they don't get results. Why???? They won't think the reason is themselves, nooooo, for once they won't think only about themselves. It must be someone else's fault! "They must be cheating, because opponents can't be better than me." Next thing they'll do is sum up all their worthless credentials and hope someone will also see a better player in them than they actually are...

[EricK]

Free, on Dec 26 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

hotShot, on Dec 26 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

People cheat at bridge

~snip~
3) because they feel like experts, but the results are not as good as they should be. They *know* everybody else is cheating, because otherwise they would not beat them. They try to restore equal chances by cheating too.
~snip~

I guess this is one of the best descriptions I've ever seen, and it's valid for all kinds of competitive games/sports/events.

Some people just think they're better than they are (it's called a dream, a wish, hope) but they don't get results. Why???? They won't think the reason is themselves, nooooo, for once they won't think only about themselves. It must be someone else's fault! "They must be cheating, because opponents can't be better than me." Next thing they'll do is sum up all their worthless credentials and hope someone will also see a better player in them than they actually are...

It also explains the popularity of some of the more, um, extreme political viewpoints amongst some of the, um, less educated members of the population.

"I'm an intelligent enough guy, why can't I get a decent-paying job? It can't be my fault, it must be the fault of the illegal immigrants (or the capitalists, or the Jews, or the illegal immigrant Capitalist Jews)."

[keylime]

1. Most folks do not want to admit that they aren't as good as they think they are. Just look at certain countries' numbers of "experts".
2. The ease of gaining a reputation as being a good player without the cost of hard work and diligence.
3. Having a good status online is now translatable into monetary gains.
4. As Ron mentioned, low self-esteem.

[mycroft]

I would suggest that in some cases, the cheaters are winning the game, and that win is not at all tainted.

Of course, the game they're playing isn't bridge.

They're gaming the system. And they're winning. And that's the game of consequence (oh, and getting away with it).

Similar to the other thread; I think that if I wished, I could be +1IMP/board for a great deal of time. I could also be -1IMP/board for a great deal of time, playing my absolute best. I get to pick my partners and opponents (in the -1 case; I'd be happy taking whoever shows up in the +1 case), right?

At one time I was the host for the "How the Lehman System works" page. Of course, I was interested and I read it. I immediately figured out the best way to game the system. I didn't put it into practice, in fact, I actively did things that would negatively impact my Lehman rating (but were positive expectation for me), but I saw several who did...

You want to game the Masterpoint system? Here you go. Do you want to be known as the worst 1500 MP player in the world? Not my problem. Again, it isn't bridge that's the game of interest, it's beating the system.

The problem with a rating system for individuals in a game that relies on partnerships is that any such rating system can be gamed - including the rating system that is cash games. And it doesn't require the C word to do it; just a knowledge of the best partners/partnership styles to get the result you want.

Against these gamers, anyone interested in Bridge have no recourse - because the game they want to play is Bridge, and they aren't interested in (or even knowledgeable of) the other games. Oh well.

Michael.